Information & Ethics Committee on May 10th, 2007

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

That may be.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It's going to prejudice the investigation--

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

That could be, but that does not prevent the committee from doing it.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I'm in the middle of a point of order here, and you're challenging me on every sentence I make.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I asked you to make your point. You've made your point--

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I'm trying to do that, sir. I'm on to my second point, which--

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Which is?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, if you give me a minute.... Mr. Chairman, just give me a minute. I know you're excited to get on to this and challenge me and debate me, but I'm saying you don't have the right to debate me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Mr. Tilson, you have one minute.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You're going to give me a minute to make a point of order?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Didn't you just ask me for a minute?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Oh, well--

[Some hon. members]

Oh! Oh!

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It's nice to bring humour to this, but I think it's very serious, because this motion, if it's carried, will prejudice the work of the commission.

We will probably get into the issue of.... We will ask the Globe and Mail people to come and give evidence as to where they got their information. We will have an extensive investigation of the former government, the Liberal government's work in this area. We will have an extensive investigation of the work that the current Conservative government is doing, and by making that evidence public, which isn't done in the work of the Information Commissioner, we will be prejudicing the work of the Information Commissioner.

It does go beyond that. After the Information Commission has made its ruling, one way or the other, as I understand the process, it's conceivable that this matter could end up before the Federal Court. We will then be prejudicing the work of the Federal Court.

I don't think the role of this committee is to investigate applications or investigate situations that are already under the investigation of the Information Commissioner. The sections dealing with these exempting provisions to deal with the Afghanistan human rights reports are listed.

Section 13 of the Access to Information Act protects against disclosure of information obtained in confidence from a foreign government that is consistently treated as such. We'll have to look at that section. We'll probably have to have some legal people come and talk to us about that. That's very--

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I'm in the middle of a point of order.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

This is a point of clarification then perhaps. Is this a point of order that you're recognizing here, or is he in debate?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I'm giving Mr. Tilson the opportunity, since he asked for it, to make his point. I'm waiting for him to get to his point of order because at this point it sounds like debate to me. I don't want to be accused of cutting him off and debating him at every turn, so I've given him some latitude.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I would ask you, Mr. Tilson, to bring your remarks to a close, focusing specifically on what you consider to be the point of order. I will then rule on that point of order.

At this point I'm going to ask that the witnesses go home. Thank you very much for staying. I hope you found some of this of some interest from a procedural point of view. We may ask you to come back, because obviously the committee did not have an opportunity to ask you questions. Thank you for your patience, and we look forward to seeing you again.

Mr. Tilson, could you bring your remarks to a close and focus for me your precise point of order?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Wallace did refer to the transcripts when Mr. Leadbeater was asked questions, and he commented on the exemptions for blacking out certain provisions of this. This work is dealt with by the Information Commissioner. I'll read part of the transcript: “Mr. Peterson”--

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I'm sorry, are you reading the same transcript that's already been read?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I'm going to read more of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I want to know, what is your point of order? I have no problem recognizing you in debate, but what is your point of order?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

You've got to let me finish.