Evidence of meeting #47 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was problem.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Counsel, Canadian Consumer Initiative
The proposed amendment is intended to make it absolutely clear that you can undertake an action or a process like that in Quebec, following your own rules.
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
If I can also add, it may be the case that for most cases in Quebec, consumers have the recourse and remedies they need provincially. It's not the case in all other provinces. We still need to reform the federal law for the rest of Canada, even if Quebec consumers are adequately protected.
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
Last week, one of the witnesses—I believe it was the lawyer from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner—told us that it is not a crime to steal someone's identity, but it is a crime to use the information obtained.
Can we come up with some kind of legislation so that identity theft becomes a crime?
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
This is one of the recommendations that many people are making for a Criminal Code amendment. It is in fact an offence under the Criminal Code right now to collect and possess credit card information without lawful excuse. I believe it may be so in some other specific situations.
The law enforcement agencies say they can sometimes catch someone with a huge amount of non-credit card data and other personal information and documents, such as social insurance numbers, names, and addresses, which it's pretty clear that person was planning to use for identity fraud purposes. But because there is no specific offence in the Criminal Code for possession of that kind of information without lawful excuse, they have nothing to charge the person with.
It is one of the possible Criminal Code amendments that I know the Department of Justice is looking at and we are looking at as well.
But I think you need to be very careful before simply creating new offences. There may be many situations in which people lawfully have information about others, with a lawful excuse. There definitely needs to be a criminal intent requirement. But it is certainly the case that much of the unauthorized collection is not a criminal offence right now.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Thank you. Merci, Madame.
Madame Lavallée, when you discuss suggested witnesses with Mr. Rumas, you might think about le Barreau or some legal entity in Quebec. They could come and give us the exact status of class actions, how they're started in Quebec, and what the rules are.
Hopefully, it would clear up the question you were dealing with about a specific witness with expertise in Quebec law. D'accord?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Our final questioner is Mr. Wallace.
Mr. Hecht, this is your last chance to get your voice on tape. This will be it for you.
Mr. Wallace.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I'm sorry, Mr. Hecht. This is not really a question for you, but you're welcome to answer, if you want to.
I want to make sure I understand. Out of this, we will have a report on what the recommendations are.
Ms. Lawson, you said a task force would be one of the primary ones on your list. We did the report in 2003 and industry paid for it. How much did it cost? Do you have any clue? Was it hundreds of thousands of dollars or was it $50,000?
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
I can't remember the amount. It was between $25,000 and $40,000.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Okay. It was under $100 Gs for that.
It was finished in 2003, and nothing has really happened with the recommendations and conclusions that were in there. What would you say?
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
Some of the work the Consumer Measures Committee has done since this report is consistent with our recommendations, such as creating a standard affidavit for victims.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
It's about the value for money. Is another task force going to do anything different from what's already in your 2003 report?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
Ms. Lawson, it's my fault, because I've let the meeting go on, but you do not need to push that button. We have a person to do it.
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
It's really my fault. Just don't touch the button. She'll look after it for us at all times. I should not have let it go until the final hour before we got to it.
Sorry, Mr. Wallace.
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
The recommendation for the task force is just designed to try to bring everything together under one umbrella and to make sure it all gets dealt with. I think there are a number of initiatives and legislative amendments and policy reforms that clearly can be made.
I was asked what would be the most important one. Creating a national identity theft victim assistance bureau would be incredibly useful, not just to assist victims but to collect the statistics and understand the problem better.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
Just so I understand, a task force is not a volunteer organization. Industry or somebody would pay for that study to be done.
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
I'm talking about an exercise similar to what occurred with the task force on spam.
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
Industry Canada oversaw that and put a lot of effort into it.
Conservative
Mike Wallace Conservative Burlington, ON
I just wanted to be clear, for my understanding. Thank you.
Executive Director, Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic
It would be a national identity theft victim assistance bureau.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Tom Wappel
—victim assistance bureau.
We'll have a short question from Mr. Tilson.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
You just mentioned actually, by coincidence, the question I was going to ask. From your 2003 paper that you prepared, can you briefly elaborate on the standard ID theft affidavit? It's on page 52 of your report.