Information & Ethics Committee on May 17th, 2007

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Correct.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Absolutely.

Mr. Chairman—

[Glen Pearson, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Filibuster.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, you know, I resent these interjections.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

It's exactly the same in the House.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I resent these interjections, Mr. Chairman—

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

That may be.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

—and I ask you to call this meeting to order. They have no right to make the suggestions that they do. They want this committee just to rubber-stamp everything, ram it through without any debate whatsoever. That's how the opposition wants to operate.

Madame Lavallée has taken us to task for trying to talk about this matter, trying to debate this matter. She wants us just to rubber-stamp it and bang it through.

You have no right to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Order, please. I will call the meeting to order.

You are free to debate the amendment we're discussing now, Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Well, Mr. Chairman, I just want to indicate my support for the amendment. But the process we're following.... We're going to ask the two witnesses who are before us, who have been asked to come today—and I can only repeat, I don't recall agreeing to that. I agreed that they should come, because they are players in this drama, but I didn't agree that they should come in the order that they're coming.

Mr. Reid is quite correct in outlining the process, to explain it so we can properly ask questions of these witnesses, properly prepare for these witnesses. I knew these names, because they were mentioned to me in the subcommittee report. Other members of this committee on both sides may never have heard of these names. The first time they were mentioned was in that subcommittee report.

Am I calling it the correct name, the subcommittee? That's right, there was a discussion where representatives from all four caucuses were present.

That was the first time these names were mentioned. We don't come to these meetings and wing it, Mr. Chairman. We come prepared. We want to know who the witnesses are so that we can research, so that we can ask intelligent questions of these witnesses; otherwise we'll have to have them come back.

The whole purpose of the process is that we have some idea of who these witnesses are, what they have to say. The researchers generally prepare excellent presentations for us for questions that we may put to these two witnesses. They have not had that opportunity. The first time they have had the opportunity to see these names is today. They read the papers like everyone else, I suppose, but they had no idea that these witnesses were coming. At least, I didn't tell them. Unless you or the clerk told them...and I don't imagine you did that, because you're not allowed to.

The first time we had these names available, the names of the two people who are before us, was this morning. So we're going to sit here and just wing it. Some of us don't know the procedure. Some of us do, because we've been through some of these things before, but not all members of the committee, with due respect, are aware of the procedure of how you go through these things.

I'm disappointed that my colleague didn't put the report on, but I'm confident that the report will come, and I accept your statement, Mr. Chairman, that you believed the report was going to be presented today and that it didn't come today.

So I think that the order Mr. Reid has put forward—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chairman—it's a matter relating to decorum—I stand to be corrected, but I have the distinct impression that Mr. Martin has been passing around copies of the untranslated report in this committee, and we have to be respectful of both official languages. I wonder whether...I would stand corrected on that, but this would be inappropriate.

Could we just get confirmation of that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I don't see what decorum has to do with whatever Mr. Martin is passing around. I don't see your point as a point of order. You interrupted Mr. Tilson, and we'll go back to him.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Well, Mr. Chairman, further to this point of order, I've been at a number—

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I'm sorry, I've ruled on your point. Are you going to appeal the ruling?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I haven't finished my point of order, so you can't possibly have ruled upon it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Yes, I did. You finished your point. You pointed it out as a rule of decorum. I ruled your point not well taken.

Do you have another point of order, Mr. Reid?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chairman, my understanding of the Standing Orders, then, and of the rules of this committee, unless they're different from the rules of other committees in this respect, is that they clearly state that items cannot be distributed unless they are in both official languages. This is separate from being a matter of decorum.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Items cannot be distributed by the committee, by the clerk. An individual member can give an invitation to a party, if he wants, in one official language. He can give out whatever he wants. But the clerk, on behalf of the committee, cannot distribute items, unless they are in both official languages, without the unanimous consent of the committee. That's clearly the rule of all committees.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chairman, am I to understand that your ruling, then, is that it is acceptable for members to come to committees and distribute documents relating to what's going on in the committee to other members of the committee—obviously, also to other members of the public present in the room—that are only in one official language? Is that what you're ruling?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I have no idea whether Mr. Martin is distributing documents, invitations, or copies of a study. I haven't got a clue, but that's not my business. My business is to run this committee, and the things that go to the members from this committee go through the clerk. The clerk provides things in both official languages and only both official languages, unless the committee agrees otherwise.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I'm asking what your actual ruling is. I don't know whether I can object to it or not if I don't know what the ruling actually is, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

My ruling is that your point is out of order. It is not a point of order.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

But you can't just say that, Mr. Chairman. You have to say, I am ruling that—

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I don't need a lecture, Mr. Reid, on how to run a committee—

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I think you do, Mr. Chairman. You're having real problems here.