Information & Ethics Committee on May 17th, 2007

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

It's in order. That is the subamendment that has been moved by Mr. Tilson.

Is there any discussion on the subamendment?

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I'd like to speak to that, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Mr. Chairman, this whole issue—the purpose of the motion, the purpose of the report—involves whether or not the Access to Information Act has been violated by either the government or by other individuals. And I add the Official Secrets Act.

We're talking about very serious and confidential information. Inadvertently, this committee could blurt something out that they know which perhaps they shouldn't blurt out, that violates those pieces of legislation.

We will need advice, not just from legal people but perhaps from other people, people in the ministry, who will guide us as to the types of questions we may ask and whether those questions are appropriate, to assist us in examining, from witnesses, whether these pieces of legislation have been violated.

I don't think we should be going into this cold, Mr. Chairman. None of us is qualified. Well, I'm not; maybe others are, but certainly I'm not. I want to receive advice not just from legal people; there may be other people whom the committee may deem necessary to call to provide us with assistance before we hear evidence from other witnesses who are on the list Mr. Reid has called for; or indeed, whether that amendment fails or not, other witnesses whom the committee themselves may wish to call at a later date.

That's why, Mr. Chairman, I have proposed this subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you for being brief.

Just on a technical point, I want the record to show that I believe the Anti-terrorism Act changed the name of the Official Secrets Act to the Security of Information Act. I want the committee to understand that whatever the proper, current name of the Official Secrets Act is, that is what Mr. Tilson is referring to, and that's how the subamendment will actually read.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

May I call the question?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Hold on. Can we debate it?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Of course you can debate it. I'm asking whether I may call the question.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I'd like to debate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Yes, go ahead.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Am I on the list?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

You are on the list. You're before Mr. Reid.

Actually, I have two others, Mr. Van Kesteren and Mr. Stanton, but I thought they had their hands up for the other item, not this one. Is that right?

Mr. Peterson.

[Jim Peterson, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I would like to ask the Conservatives whether the Prime Minister's Office or the Prime Minister himself knows that they are filibustering this issue. I assume they have informed their superiors that they are intending to filibuster and have been given the green light by the powers that be, including the Prime Minister, to do so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

That's debate. It's not particularly relevant to the amendment, but thank you for your comments.

Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you.

We're on to—

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

We're on the subamendment of Mr. Tilson.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Yes, thank you.

Well, the relevance here of trying to protect secrets is considerable. If you go through the Access to Information Act, which I've been trying to do when I get the opportunity in the course of our proceedings today, it becomes clear that it's not simply about saying that all government information is open. It's quite clear that in itself—

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Point of order, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Tilson has explained all this to us. He told us why he introduced this amendment, how he prepared it to ensure that everything that came out here would be confidential. I think that he has explained this to us in great detail. This is important to the Conservative's way of thinking. I don't have a problem. Let us call the question. We don't need to discuss everything Mr. Tilson told us he did to come up with the amendment he is moving here. So, let's call the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Thank you, Mr. Vincent. I'm ruling your point not well taken.

Do you have anything new to add to the debate?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Something new to add that we haven't heard on this subamendment?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Yes, you certainly haven't heard this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Yes, please.