Information & Ethics Committee on May 17th, 2007

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Mr. Stanton, I take it that your proposal is made in good faith and I take it that you don't want to change the order of Madame Sabourin. That's the end of that.

We do have the subamendment. Mr. Reid has asked to speak to the subamendment that was moved by Mr. Stanton.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chair, the concern I have is that it deals with providing an orderly approach. As you know, this has been the entire theme of my interventions today and the amendment I've proposed. I'm assuming that now we're back to the order in which essentially the two witnesses who are here today would be able to testify and then the Information Commissioner would come at a later date and Madame Sabourin would come after the Information Commissioner and--this is important--also such other people who would advise us as to what the legalities are that we can see and deal with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

There is one exception. Mr. Koring was also mentioned and he would come after the Information Commissioner but before Madame Sabourin, if I'm stating the subamendment correctly.

Go ahead, Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

That's good. I understand that. I think I'm generally supportive of the idea of doing this. The first point I made when I raised my first intervention back in the last room was that when it comes to Mr. Esau, we knew he was coming. With regard to Professor Attaran, we didn't know he was coming. I only now have had my assistant run out and get me an article, which is several months old, from February, in which Professor Attaran is making some commentary.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

That's very interesting. What's the point?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

The point here is that we're talking about the order we're putting people in. What I'm getting at here is that I'm having some difficulty because there's a document that I don't have access to that's being circulated to the members on the opposite side, and I gather Mr. Martin won't share about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Do not mention it again or I'll rule you out of order. I've already talked about that and I've already ruled on it.

What's your point on the subamendment? Are you in favour or are you against, and why?

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chair, may I ask why it is that you never rule Mr. Martin out of order when he goes on at great length, interjects these snide comments, and cuts people off?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I do rule him out of order, but I have to hear what he has to say first.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

He's out of order, period. It doesn't matter what he has to say, unless he has a point of order, in which case he would take precedence over me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Perhaps we could address the issue before us, not the rulings.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

[Inaudible--Editor]...he could sit here and filibuster for hours and not expect us not to--

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Mr. Martin, you're not being helpful.

Mr. Reid.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

The point is that I am able, with some difficulty, to ask some intelligent questions to Mr. Esau. I would have great difficulty in doing so with Professor Attaran because I had no warning. That is because of the inefficient way in which we go about doing this stuff, or the not very informative way in which this committee deals with subcommittees.

I'm sorry, I'm having trouble concentrating because of noise in the room, Mr. Chair. Could you please call people to order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I'm going to call you to order if you don't make a point.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Would you also call them to order, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I'm hearing you perfectly well.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

I would appreciate that. I'm trying to organize my thoughts.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I'm afraid you'll have to do that a little more quickly, Mr. Reid. I'm sorry, we can't go on here.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Mr. Chair, if you want to follow the Standing Orders, which you are bound by--

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

Are you going to debate with me or are you going to debate the subamendment? Please get to it.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I have inadequate information here to allow me to properly deal with the professor and with his items, and therefore I would like to propose an amendment to Mr. Stanton's subamendment to deal purely with Mr.... I'm sorry, I overheard the conversation, and that's a good point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

I have just heard from the clerk, who advises me that it is out of order to accept a subamendment to a subamendment.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Lennox and Addington, ON]

May I find out if something else would be in order, then, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Tom Wappel]

What do you mean?