Evidence of meeting #27 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was inquiry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
On the budgeting and administrative side, do you go through the umbrella of the House of Commons--the Speaker, the Sergeant-at-Arms, and so on?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I go through the Speaker.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
If you're drafting your budget and looking at your financial forecast for the year, you would get it approved by the Speaker before going to Treasury Board. Would it be a submission by the Speaker to Treasury Board that would include...?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No, we don't go to Treasury Board. What I'm saying is that in practice, we consult with Treasury Board, but our practice is correctly to go to the Speaker. Then I think it goes over to Treasury Board, but nothing happens there, I don't think.
Director, Corporate Management, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It doesn't get challenged at that point.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
It doesn't get challenged. It is just so they can budget for it. They can forecast for it or comment.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
If I may, there has been for some time an ad hoc committee that all officers of Parliament have been on in the past to review matters as they relate to Treasury Board discussions. Sometimes there are disputes on various matters, and those have been one of the tools. But effectively, it is under the auspices of the Speaker, so it's not like Mr. Milliken is sitting there.
Mr. Coakeley wants to jump in here.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
If I could, Mr. Chair, we are actually not subject to that process. There's a provision in the Parliament of Canada Act that designates that the Speaker is the appropriate minister for the purposes of the Financial Administration Act. It also indicates that once the Speaker has signed off on the estimates, they are sent to the President of the Treasury Board to be included in the estimates. At the moment, we are not a participant in the committee process you've described that applies to other officers of Parliament. Because we are part of the parliamentary entity, we are not subject to other ministers, as those organizations are. They each have appropriate ministers.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Do you understand that it's the ad hoc committee that has representations from each of the parties that was started as a pilot project?
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's correct. But we have not been part of that process.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
That clarifies it. So you would be different. We've heard in the past the complaint that it would be questionable whether the Auditor General has absolute autonomy and independence because the office depends on government for budgeting. But you don't depend on government. Cabinet can't influence your budgeting efforts, nor can the opposition parties. You deal solely with the Speaker to forecast what you will need.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's right.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
In your opening statement you suggested that until now, you've been using a lot of contract work, a lot of law firms and things like that, to do the work while understaffed.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
There were no law firms.
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No. I've hired two or three people over the course of the past year for six-month periods or something, who I know and trust and who are competent, because there's a lot of very important work that I have to do in this first year to get myself up and running, and I'm not fully staffed.
Liberal
Robert Thibault Liberal West Nova, NS
So you've been doing it that way.
I recognize that it's early and it's difficult to tell what the evolution of this thing will be, but from what you're seeing now and where it's going, do you see it becoming a 100-person organization, remaining as a 50-person operation, or going down to 25? Where do you see the long-term stability area of the office?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Do you mean with respect to my staff?
Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I'm hoping to get 100% of them.