Evidence of meeting #29 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was complaints.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I think you know both of the persons accompanying me. Assistant Commissioner Raymond D'Aoust is the commissioner responsible for the Privacy Act. He is the expert on the application of the Privacy Act.
Our general counsel, Maître Patricia Kosseim, you've met before.
Mr. Chair, we have sent quite a bit of material to the committee. You had previously received the study we did on reforming the Privacy Act. We did an addendum of April 2008 and in that made some further observations and suggestions. Maybe I could just suggest, then, in the opening statement, that you turn to immediate changes. It's on page 5, or thereabouts.
4:35 p.m.
Raymond D'Aoust Assistant Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
It's page 2.
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Sorry, it's page 2 in your version, yes. So you have received an addendum through the committee.
4:35 p.m.
A voice
That's page 2, immediate changes?
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Yes. They're also at the end of the addendum.
We are trying there, in response to this committee's concerns, to single out some changes to the Privacy Act that we think would more reasonably be possible to adopt with less complex considerations, shall we say. They're also ones that seem to us to be the most important. They are a combination of the most important and the most simple, or the less controversial, in possible debates because, personal information being a constitutional right, there are many debates about the role of government in it, and so on.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
David Tilson Conservative Dufferin—Caledon, ON
Ms. Stoddart, I have a number of documents. I have something called “Reforming the Privacy Act”.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
I'm at the addendum, Mr. Chairman, April 2008.
4:35 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
At the very end, “Changes of Immediate Benefit to the Privacy Act.
4:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
If that's more convenient to the members.
4:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
If we go down that list of the changes...maybe I'll read them out. Number one:
Creating a legislative requirement for government departments to demonstrate the necessity for collecting personal information. This necessity test already exists in Treasury Board policy, as well as in PIPEDA....
It's recognized internationally, for example, in the European Union. The collection must be reasonable, and there must be a demonstrable need for each piece of personal information.
I don't know how you want to proceed, Mr. Chair.
4:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Let's get some agreement about how we approach it. This is like a band-aid approach as opposed to discussing how we get that.
We have had a discussion among the committee. I think the discussion I had with you was to identify possible areas, or an area, that we might want to prioritize. There are a number. But we also fully understand that there are overlaps with access and PIPEDA, etc.
As you know, we've also had an interesting dialogue with Heather Black, to help us get a feel for what was happening. It was Heather herself who really brought this suggestion to us. There are a few items here that are quick fixes. They are pretty straightforward and wouldn't require a lot of witnesses or anything like that. They're just the right thing to do. That's where I think you are in your addendum in this area here.
Do you want to make a comment before we do the individual fixes? Can you give an expression to the committee about your view on where we should or could go to be helpful and productive within this relatively short timeframe? What is your assessment? I think you're aware of the question I'm asking. I think the committee may want to engage you on your opinion and recommendation to us.
4:40 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Yes, overall as Privacy Commissioner, first of all, I welcome your interest in this topic. The topic is not new, and over a period of many years, beginning five years after this act was passed, there has been a great hesitation for successive governments to make any changes to the Privacy Act, except in consequence of other legislation.
The reform of this act, I think, is extremely important for all the reasons set out in both of the documents, and Ms. Black may have expressed also her concern with the fact that this act now does not meet modern international standards. Even for the government—the government is not subjecting itself to the standards it imposes on Canadian corporations or the rights it gives Canadian consumers in relation to Canadian corporations or the rights it gives to complainants to our office, who do not like the way they've been treated by Canadian commercial organizations, to take their problems further. You can't do that with the government. I think there's a real issue of equity. There's an issue of modernization. There's an issue, in a society that values something as important as this, of making sure the rights are defined in a way that makes them practically applicable today.
There's also the whole issue of the emergence of the information society in a much stronger way than was even foreseen in the early 1980s. You would be interested to know that something like 25 million Canadians are now very active in the virtual world—for example, on Facebook. There are something like 30 hours a week spent by people who are active on sites like Second Life, who live a kind of parallel virtual life.
I'm just using these examples to say how the reality has changed and how the privacy doesn't, and that the issue of personal information and what is being done with it, and so on, is a real daily issue for Canadians, and we don't have a law that's adequate to face that task. My staff and I have tried to come up with these suggestions that I don't think are extremely radical, if you look at the history of suggestions for reform or if you look at more modern legislation.
There are also two more suggestions I'd like to make: one is fairly easy, about a five-year review, and the other deals with the issue of transborder data flow.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
You said the current act does not meet the evolution of information flow, etc. The question is this. Is the current act reparable, as a starting point, or does it have to be rewritten from scratch?
4:45 p.m.
Privacy Commissioner, Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
In the real world, ideally one could write a whole new information rights law for Canadians, but I think what is more important now is to take the basis of the act. Remember that the act is not alone in assuring Canadians' privacy rights, fortunately. It's also interpreted by our courts. It's subject to the charter itself. Some privacy rights are defined through the application of the Criminal Code, increasingly, and so on. So I think it is in this context eminently fixable, and I have tried to single out the areas where you could suggest a fairly quick change to it—or a fairly simple change. I don't know how quick it would be.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I'd like to ask if the members want to jump in on this. Or should we move to the fixes? Do you want to hear the rest of the presentation on the fixes?
April 17th, 2008 / 4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Russ Hiebert Conservative South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC
Mr. Chair, we've all had an opportunity to review the documents that have been provided, including the addendum from the Privacy Commissioner. Perhaps the best use of our time would be for us to simply follow the list that's been collected by the clerk and proceed to questions.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Okay, that's fair enough.
Next are Mr. Dhaliwal, Madame Lavallée, Mr. Martin, and Mr. Hiebert.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Sukh Dhaliwal Liberal Newton—North Delta, BC
Thank you.
Madam Privacy Commissioner, I have a question for you. You are suggesting we should rewrite the whole act--that is what I'm reading time and time again. You mentioned that we have to overhaul. On the other hand, you're saying there are some immediate benefits or changes we can make.
Can you give us some resources that we have to put in to have the whole act rewritten--and only making those changes you are requesting?