Evidence of meeting #32 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was foreign.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
In the Canada Border Services Agency you access that information.
4:45 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
We have access to that information, but not at our primary line. We have access to that information if we're trying to find out about the case of a person who may or may not be admissible.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Your access would be the same as it is for any policeman who stopped me for speeding on the highway. They could find out if Hubbard has a record. That can come back almost instantaneously through the....
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
We don't have access to all the information in CPIC. We have access to certain parts of that information.
There are various parts. The CPIC database is huge. It has a lot of information about criminal records and so on. But not all that information is provided to the CBSA for border management purposes.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Thanks, Mr. Chair.
I think we have to identify that, because often, in the United States, there is a much different impression of what's criminal behaviour. People in our country can eventually get back to being good citizens, whereas in the United States you have some states in which it's three strikes and you're out. That has to be weighed in terms of developing a better border-crossing system so that people aren't caught on either our side or their side with serious problems of movement.
4:50 p.m.
Liberal
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Welcome all of you. My question is for Ms. Melis, but perhaps for the others as well.
When a Quebec or Canadian citizen crosses the border to go into the United States or is returning from another country, does the Canada Border Services Agency have an automatic procedure?
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I'm not 100% clear. An automatic procedure to check the person, or to--
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
We talked earlier about the no-fly black list, but this is probably a more specifically Canada-U.S. issue. There is a lot of travel back and forth. Do you have any responsibility vis-à-vis each citizen arriving at the Canadian border?
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I think we do.
If I were to describe that situation.... Someone is coming to Canada. We have access to the information of all persons travelling to Canada by air. We have that access through the API/PNR information. So there is a system set up to tell us who is on what flight that is coming from where, what documents they have. Some of that information is linked to our databases of persons of concern to us, for whatever reason that might be. They may be on a lookout because they've committed a crime. They may be someone who's wanted by Interpol. They might be someone we want to see because we have some data for them.
The National Risk Assessment Centre reviews the PAXIS information and provides advice to the port of entry. So if they're arriving at Pearson Airport, there's a passenger unit that would review that information and decide to meet the flight, or ensure that the person of interest was referred when they arrived at the primary line to secondary. Now it could be secondary for immigration purposes or for customs purposes, and it could be secondary for both purposes, depending on the reason.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
API/PNR information also gives us information on Canadian citizens who are coming into Canada.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
4:50 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Yes.
4:50 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
For several decades now, there has been talk of amending the Privacy Act, an issue that continues to be current.
We know that a lot of things are changing with regard to security. The September 11 events had a tremendous impact. What changes should be made to this act in order to improve your work? Is the act sufficient? Do you deal with situations on a case by case basis?
4:50 p.m.
Director, Access to Information, Privacy and Disclosure Policy Division, Canada Border Services Agency
If I understand the question, you're asking whether the recent changes to the Access to Information Act have improved our access to information?
4:55 p.m.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
We are talking about changing the present act. Should this act be modified in order to improve your work?
4:55 p.m.
Director, Access to Information, Privacy and Disclosure Policy Division, Canada Border Services Agency
As an institution, we've grown used to the existing act. That's what we work with on a day-to-day basis. We understand that we have to have a justifiable reason to collect information. It has to be for a program purpose. We have to maintain the information in such a way that a person may seek their information and ask for a records correction. And we have to be able to justify it, because the person has a right of complaint.
Basically we've learned to work with the act. I really haven't turned my mind to the kinds of changes that might be beneficial to the institution or to private citizens.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I represent Windsor West. Obviously it's a very busy border crossing. When somebody comes across the border to the United States and they are detained, arrested, or sent back to Canada, what information is shared between you and the Department of Homeland Security or other U.S. government officials?
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
Canada has an information-sharing agreement with regard to persons who are encountering enforcement action and who are not Canadian or American citizens. If it's a Canadian resident or a third-country national who is stopped on the American side, detained and questioned, then we have an information-sharing agreement that enables us to share information on a personal basis, on an individual basis. We don't have to go and ask what the story is about; they can tell us why they've detained them. On a Canadian citizen, as long as it's for a consistent use, we're able to share that information.
With regard to CBP telling us about certain circumstances, they have a terrorist database that is the one often in the news about Canadians, terrorists, entering the United States and about Canada being a hotbed for terrorists, etc. They tell us from that database on a monthly basis how many persons are intercepted and where those persons could be intercepted as they have a U.S. preclearance in Canada or in other countries. There could be someone who is intercepted at the land border or it could be someone who flies directly into the United States from a Canadian airport that doesn't have a preclearance facility. They tell us they've encountered this many Canadian citizens this month and have determined they were terrorists. We can then go and ask for more information.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
You assemble statistics on the reasons why people have been turned back. Does the department keep those statistics?
4:55 p.m.
Director General, Intelligence Directorate, Enforcement Branch, Canada Border Services Agency
I think it's a work in progress. One of the things we learned from the Auditor General's audit last year on the lookout monitoring was that we needed to work better to close the loop for persons who are intercepted for those reasons going into the U.S. and for coming back into Canada. We're working on that.
4:55 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
The reason I asked those background questions is that the U.S. has decided to DNA-sample Canadians. What are you going to do with that information now? Has the department taken a position on that? What are you going to do with that information? Are you going to request that the United States segregate that information and not send it over?
In Canada we have a different law with DNA sampling. You have to actually have a request for it through the court system. Are you going to ask the United States to segregate and keep that DNA information? Has the minister objected? I've yet to hear anything, and I don't know if the minister has objected. I don't think that's the case. What are you going to do with that information if they send it over to you, and what's the policy of the department on this issue now?
