Evidence of meeting #39 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Ian McCowan  Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada
Anne Rooke  Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Correctional Service Canada

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), we have our study of Privacy Act reform.

Our witnesses today are from Correctional Service Canada. We have Mr. Ian McCowan, assistant commissioner for policy and research, and Ms. Anne Rooke, director of access to information and privacy. Welcome to both of you.

I think you are well aware of the nature of our current order of business. I understand you have opening statements, which have been circulated to members.

I invite you to address the committee now .

3:30 p.m.

Ian McCowan Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and good afternoon to everyone.

I'd like to begin, if I could, with a brief overview of CSC.

CSC is responsible for offenders who have been sentenced to two years or more and for the supervision of offenders under long-term supervision orders. Our core contribution to public safety is achieved through the safe and secure custody of inmates, through the provision of programs and initiatives to assist inmates—

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Point of order, Mr. Chair.

I don't mean to interrupt. It's just that I know this is a policy interest of Mr. Martin's and Mr. Hubbard's and that they would want to hear this. I was wondering if we could give them a few more minutes before starting, so that they could be included in the opening statement.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

I understand your point. It's nice to allow all members to have the same courtesy. But the majority of members are here now, and I think we should proceed with our business. We only have a limited time.

I see that Mr. Martin is walking in the door now. I think we'll just carry on.

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON

Good. Normally I wouldn't ask. It's just that question period went a little bit longer today.

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

That's understood.

Please proceed.

3:30 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada

Ian McCowan

Our core contribution to public safety is achieved through the safe and secure custody of inmates through the provision of programs and initiatives to assist inmates to safely reintegrate right into the community, and by supervising offenders once they're conditionally released. CSC is a large organization operating 58 institutions, 16 community correctional centres, and 71 parole offices, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Over the course of fiscal year 2006-07, including all admissions and releases, CSC managed 19,500 different incarcerated offenders and 14,000 different supervised offenders in the community. CSC employs approximately 15,200 staff across the country and strives to maintain a workforce that reflects Canadian society. CSC's annual budget is approximately $1.9 billion.

Responding to both access to information and privacy requests poses particular challenges in the correctional environment. Like other organizations, we do this in a manner that fully respects privacy. However, we must also do this in the context of our overriding commitment to public safety.

The ATIP division, which ultimately reports to me and is led by Ms. Rooke, is the focal point for the application of the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act in CSC. The ATIP division deals directly with the public in connection with ATIP requests and serves as the centre of ATIP expertise in enabling CSC to meet its statutory obligations under the acts. To that end, the division is responsible for ensuring that formal access and privacy requests are completed in a timely manner, and for promoting a culture of openness and accountability while ensuring that all appropriate safeguards are adhered to with regard to the handling of all personal information.

By the nature of its activities and legislated mandate, CSC handles a large volume of personal information and responds to a significant number of requests for information every year. In an average year, CSC receives between 7,000 and 10,000 privacy requests, with the exception of 2003-04, when there was a surge in the number of requests. With the exception of that one year, and during that year the number of complaints against CSC represented 65% of the total number filed with the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, between 2003 and 2007 CSC accounted for 18% to 25% of all Office of the Privacy Commissioner complaints.

This helps to clarify the information previously provided to the committee. I understand there was testimony that offenders represent 50% of the complaints filed with the OPC. The numbers that I gave you a moment ago are the correct numbers, and the OPC agrees with those numbers, that they're a more accurate reflection of CSC' s share of complaints that have been filed over the last number of years. I should note that those numbers include complaints that are filed by staff, offenders, and the public, all complaints.

With such a large volume of requests for personal information, it's not unexpected that CSC is ranked among the top institutions, including the RCMP and the Canada Revenue Agency, for the number of complaints filed with the OPC.

In light of the fact that CSC receives a vast number of requests every year, it's important to point out that the number of complaints against CSC represents, on average, only 2% to 10% yearly of the total CSC ATIP workload. Since 2003 there have been approximately 3,500 complaints recorded in the CSC ATIP database. Of these complaints, 91% were filed because the department did not meet the 30-day statutory time limit, or applied exemptions with which the requester did not agree.

As set out in section 12 under the Privacy Act, it affords the same right of access to all Canadian citizens or permanent residents. Indeed, our own statute, the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, paragraph 4(e), states that offenders retain all the rights and privileges of all members of society, except those privileges that are necessarily removed or restricted as a consequence of their sentence. As a result, offenders are entitled to request personal information held by CSC. CSC agrees with the Privacy Commissioner that complaints must be handled indiscriminately by government departments, even though an individual may simply have an axe to grind against a government institution.

As you know, the Privacy Act requires that the OPC and all federal departments deal with all complaints and requests when they are received. There is no mechanism at the present time to assess whether complaints are trivial, frivolous, or vexatious.

With regard to the proposed amendments to the Privacy Act, it would not be appropriate for us to comment on changes the Privacy Commissioner has put forward, the ten quick fixes. I understand these are what she deems necessary to carry out her duties.

Having said that, this is a brief introduction, Mr. Chairman. We will be pleased to answer any and all questions you may have.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you kindly for that.

I think we'll move right into the questions.

Mr. Pearson.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome. It's nice to have you with us today.

One of the things we've been talking about is creating new legislation around the Privacy Act. Witnesses we've had from various departments and agencies have expressed concerns over that, because they feel it will not give them the flexibility they have at present for the collection of data and other things they want to do. I would be interested to know how you feel about that as far as Correctional Service of Canada is concerned. Do you feel it would impinge on your flexibility?

3:35 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada

Ian McCowan

I have a couple of thoughts. First of all, in terms of the policy ownership of the Privacy Act, my understanding is that the Treasury Board and the Department of Justice are basically the key stakeholders, and the Privacy Commissioner is obviously central.

We are in the position of a lot of other operational departments in that we'll operationalize whatever scheme Parliament seems to put in place.

I would say in response to your question that CSC is a little bit of a different department in some ways. We don't keep specific track of the exact number of requests that come from various categories, but because we have a large number of folks who are inmates in our system, those individuals frequently file privacy requests, largely about what's on their case management file. We're mandated by our statute to capture a large amount of information about all offenders, and there is actually a provision in our act that says that when get a request in writing, it should basically be processed in accordance with the terms of the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act.

In terms of CSC as an organization, we're always going to have a large number of privacy requests, given the nature of our operations. Information is really the lifeblood of our business in terms of making decisions about offenders. It's always got to be up to date and it's always got to be as comprehensive as possible. There are always going to be issues around that, and I suspect we'll always be near the top of the list in terms of both the number of requests that come in and the number of complaints.

In response to your specific question, the Privacy Commissioner is putting forward these ten quick fixes. I read them with great interest.

What I'd say in response is that I don't feel we're in a position to comment on what the Privacy Commissioner feels they need to do their job. We will operationalize whatever Parliament decides is the appropriate scheme.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

I don't think my question was quite about that. I felt it was more a question of whether you feel the flexibility that's in the system now has been advantageous to you. Do you feel that tightening up that system in terms of how we require that information and how we get it will impede you more?

3:35 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada

Ian McCowan

We do not have great difficulties with the system the way it is right now. Again, in the context of what I mentioned a moment ago, we're an unusual department and we're always going to be near the top of the heap in terms of requests and complaints.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

All right.

And do you do privacy impact assessments?

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada

Ian McCowan

Yes, we do.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

Do you use them consistently?

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada

Ian McCowan

Perhaps Ms. Rooke would be better placed to respond to that.

3:40 p.m.

Anne Rooke Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Correctional Service Canada

We've done two in the past year. On average, two is probably the number that we do. Of the two that we've recently done, one had to do with a telework situation and the other had to do with electronic monitoring.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

Can I ask you about the process you use when you determine a privacy impact assessment?

3:40 p.m.

Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Correctional Service Canada

Anne Rooke

The manager responsible for a new program or a new undertaking will assess whether a privacy impact assessment is required. They will first of all determine if personal information is involved in the new undertaking, and, if so, will do a preliminary privacy impact assessment to see whether a full-blown PIA is required. If so, we then strike a committee. We have representatives on the committee from various sectors, including legal, security, ATIP, and the branch or division that is introducing a new undertaking.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

That you've only done two is a little interesting. I thought the number would have been higher. Do you have any problems with PIAs?

3:40 p.m.

Director, Access to Information and Privacy, Correctional Service Canada

Anne Rooke

No. The ones we've done in the past two years have not been problematic.

Obviously our systems have been in existence for quite some time, and we're not necessarily collecting new personal information, which would explain why we haven't had that many PIAs to do.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

Ms. Rooke, when the Canadian Bar Association was here, they talked about this idea of putting forward some legislation and making it tighter to get that information. They felt the two could be done--new legislation could be brought in, and flexibility could be built within the system.

You have just said, Mr. McCowan, that you feel the system works all right for you the way it is, but if it does get tighter and more legislation is brought into place, do you feel it would impede you? That's what I'm trying to get at. Do you think there would still be enough flexibility? I realize it depends on what that legislation is.

3:40 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner, Policy and Research, Correctional Service Canada

Ian McCowan

It depends a lot, I guess, on what the nature of the tightening is. I'm not sure we're really in a position to help you in terms of getting to the bottom of what you're after. I understand what you're asking, but it depends on the nature of the changes. Plus or minus, we're okay with the situation the way it is right now. That said, we'll obviously adjust as Parliament sees fit.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

Glen Pearson Liberal London North Centre, ON

That's good.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Mr. Nadeau, s'il vous plaît.