Information & Ethics Committee on June 10th, 2008

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You can cover up all you want for your party, but that's not what your role is here. You're supposed to be an objective chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

First of all, colleagues, the chair made rulings that have been sustained by the committee. It's not my decision. It is the committee's decision to sustain the chair, and I have ruled.

Mr. Poilievre, it is not relevant to the debate for you to go back now and be critical of the chair for any ruling I have made that has already been disposed of by the committee. So I'm going to ask you not to go back to matters that are over now and not to cast aspersions upon any member here, including the chair, about what I did or did not do in this committee.

I've taken decisions to the best of my ability, and I operate at the behest of the committee. I will operate on that basis.

I'm going to ask you to move on and not to reflect on matters that have already been disposed of by the committee, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Chair, in order to ascertain whether or not the Conservative Party's expenses merit further scrutiny, we must ask ourselves if those expenses are abnormal, if there's something abnormal about the way in which the Conservative Party went about its electoral financing practices. Only under those circumstances would we be justified to pursue any sort of investigation. So my comments will focus on whether or not these practices are abnormal.

The practices in question, of course, deal with what is known as the “in-and-out” practice. We in the Conservative Party fully admit that we partook in the in-and-out practice, just as all the other parties did. In order to ascertain whether that's a problem, we have to ask ourselves, “Did other parties do it? Do other parties do it?”

So let us start on a global level. In the 2006 election, the Liberal Party transferred approximately $1.7 million to local candidates. Local candidates transferred approximately $1.3 million back to the Liberal Party. In the 2004 election the Liberal Party transferred $1.6 million to local candidates, and local candidates transferred $1.3 million back to the Liberal Party. At a broad level, a macro level, transfers in and transfers out happened systematically and in very large numbers.

I will turn to individual examples. We move from the macro to the micro. Let us start with Aileen Carroll, who was a public office holder at the time she was running for election and undertaking these practices.

On July 26, 2004, the Liberal Party made a transfer to Aileen Carroll's local campaign for $5,000. On August 6, 2004, ten days later, Aileen Carroll's local campaign made a transfer to the Liberal Party for $5,000. That's $5,000 in, $5,000 out. In and out--where is Elections Canada?

Now I turn to the case of Marlene Catterall, another former Liberal MP. On July 27, 2004, the Liberal Party made a transfer to Marlene Catterall's local campaign for $3,300. On August 18, 2004, Marlene Catterall's local campaign made a transfer to the Liberal Party for $3,300. That's $3,300 in, $3,300 out. In and out--where is Elections Canada?

[An hon. member]

You can join in on this if you want.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Now I turn to the case of Yvan Corriveau.

It's been so long for some of the members since they've had in-and-out experiences.

Yvan Corriveau, the candidate for Mégantic—L'Érable—

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Poilievre, order, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

On January 24, 2006, the Liberal Party made a transfer to Yvan Corriveau's local campaign of $50.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please. When the chair calls order—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

The same day--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

—you must stop speaking. The chair calls order, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Chair, all of this is perfectly relevant to whether or not one candidate's or party's expenses ought to be investigated.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I'm waiting for you. You don't want this on a public record, that's what's happening here--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please.

I'm going to give the floor now to Mr. Van Kesteren, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I still have the floor.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

No way. He's talking on topic, for crying out loud.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I'm sorry, it's persistent interruption of the proceedings. It's not respecting the authority of the chair to call order. I'm sorry.

Mr. Van Kesteren, please.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

A point of order. I have a point of order, to which you are obliged to turn over the floor, by the rules.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

State your point of order, Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

You have cut short my speaking time unilaterally and without any rules permitting you to do so. Explain to me how you've done this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I think the record will show that I had tried on a number of occasions to bring order to be able to address what you had said, and you continued to push and continued to ignore me and disrespect the chair.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Is this in...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes, it's in Marleau and Montpetit.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Chair, on January 24, 2006, the Liberal Party made a transfer to Yvan Corriveau's local campaign for $4,950. On January 24, 2006, the same day, Mr. Corriveau's local campaign made a transfer--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please.