Information & Ethics Committee on June 19th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order. Order. Mr. Goodyear, order.

Mr. Goodyear, I think you misrepresented my position on the ruling, and I would ask you to begin again. It was very specific that we were talking about public office-holders who, after becoming public office-holders, filed election expenses returns that have caused them to be named by Elections Canada for claiming matters that they should not have. These were private interests subsequent to becoming a public office-holder--subsequent to becoming an office-holder--and not, as you said, who may at some point become public office-holders. To suggest that maybe now we should talk about anybody else who might become a public office-holder is not relevant.

I just wanted to give you a heads-up on that. Speculating on who might become a public office-holder is not relevant to our motions.

Thank you.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Chair.

I just wonder if you could help me then understand Mr. Wayne Easter, with a Liberal Party invoice to the candidate of $5,350, dated January 5, 2006. The candidate return shows a cheque from the candidate to the Liberal Party of $5,350, the same amount, also dated January 5.

I could keep on going, but it sounds to me as though that gentleman from the Liberal Party is a public office-holder, and by your own definition, Mr. Chair, you've just suggested that we can't study anything unless it's specifically Conservative.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Hold it; we're getting into debate.

Order. Order.

Mr. Goodyear, good try, but the motion itself refers to those who have been named by Elections Canada to have had a matter that they are challenging.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Are we talking about the amendment or the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We are.... Well--

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

We're supposed to be talking about the amendment and the subamendment, Mr. Chair. The motion is gone.

Please clarify. Where are you on this matter?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

You cannot discuss the amendments without taking into account the context of the main motion.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

You're not going to allow me to discuss the amendment because somehow it has detracted from the original motion. It doesn't make any sense at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

The original motion involves matters--

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

I'm not talking to the original motion. Even if you want me to, Paul, I'm not going to talk about the original motion. We're on the subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

It's the context; these are persons named by Elections Canada.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

It's not relevant. We're on a subamendment. You can't restrict my conversation to a motion when we're two levels below that.

I have here a document written by the Liberal Party. It says that it's important that the chairs of committees maintain credibility, that it's important to do that by treating all members of all parties equally. It also says, on the very next page, that in a minority Parliament chairs should take particular care to limit their manifestations of excessive partisanship.

Now, are we on the amendment, the subamendment, or the original motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

We're on the subamendment.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you very much.

On the subamendment, Mr. Chair, let's read off some names for the Bloc, if you don't mind--oh, let's stay with the Liberals for a while. Since we're dealing with individuals, not parties, I won't mention the Liberal Party again.

Some individuals are Anne McLellan, David Kilgour, Doug Faulkner, Bruce King, Maureen Towns, Moe Saeed--the list goes on. It's pages, and I don't want to waste the time of all the members here, so let's skip through here. We've got Calgary South MP, Liberal--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please.

Mr. Goodyear, you asked the question. Yes, we are dealing with the subamendment, but we are also at the ethics committee. What we do here must be within the mandate of the committee. I must ask you to please restrict your commentary to persons who are public office-holders.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Does Wayne Easter count?

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Of course.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Wayne Easter...let me see here. Stéphane Dion--that's interesting; maybe he's not a public office-holder.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I have a point of order, chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Go ahead, Mr. Poilievre, on a point of order.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

Mr. Goodyear is wrong. In fact, Stéphane Dion is a public office-holder. All members of Parliament are public office-holders.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

My mistake.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

I don't know how many times we have to raise this point, but I think it's important, because we're getting new people here, people who aren't familiar with the definition of public office-holder. I said it in this meeting--

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

It includes every member of Parliament.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

No, sir. I'm going to suggest to you that we get a copy of the Conflict of Interest Act. Public office-holders are cabinet ministers, parliamentary secretaries, and order in council appointees. Members of Parliament are not order in council and are not public office-holders, because if they were--