Information & Ethics Committee on June 19th, 2008

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Del Mastro, please.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to speak to the subamendment that amends the motion--

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Mr. Chair, the member opposite has been--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order. You don't have the floor. Mr. Del Mastro has the floor. Please respect the member who has the floor.

Mr. Del Mastro, please.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I hadn't even begun speaking yet.

The subamendment speaks to adding, after “by other parties”, the phrase “or in past elections”. Again, I want to emphasize why this is so critically important.

Obviously when any party is conducting an election, when they're making the very necessary purchases for ads and so forth, signage and what have you, that we all make for elections, what they go by is the guide that's published by Elections Canada and the practices that have been followed in past elections. Of course, this speaks to “in past elections”.

My colleague was naming a few things. Well, we see numerous examples of where, for example, the Bloc Québécois....

I do not believe, by the way, Mr. Chair, the Bloc Québécois should be exempt from ever being studied for ethical actions. The ruling seems to have gone that way, but--

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

That is repetition.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I haven't even gotten to what I was going to talk about. How can that be repetition?

[An hon. member]

Those are frivolous points.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Excuse me. Order, please.

The chair has not ruled on eliminating any parties. You can't put words in the chair's mouth. The chair didn't make that ruling. The chair simply made the ruling—I will make it again—that we're talking about public office-holders. The subamendment wants to consider public office-holders in other parties. That's part of...but still public office-holders. No matter specific to the Bloc Québécois has ever been raised.

We've been over this before. We have to move on, Mr. Del Mastro, please.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I am, of course, moving on, Mr. Chair. I have not been able to get to my point yet.

My argument has to do with the subamendment on past elections. I would like to talk about Touché! Média Marketing. I'd like to talk about them because I have before me a document saying that hundreds of thousands of dollars in advertising was bought from this specific agency. It was demanded upon by a national party that they had to spend this money, and they were subsequently refunded this money.

It may interest Madame Lavallée to know that Pierrette Venne from St. Hubert participated in this to the amount of $11,742.

[An hon. member]

Wow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please. Order.

Madame Lavallée, on a point of order.

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Chair, this argument is repetitive, we have heard it all before. Mr. Poilievre has already explained it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Yes, okay, thank you--

[Carole Lavallée, Bloc, Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC]

When new members come to replace committee members, they should make themselves aware of the arguments that have already been made, and come up with new ones, if there are any.

I come back to what I said at the beginning of the meeting. I have been at the last five meetings. I listen carefully and I take notes. We have already heard that argument and responded to it. It is over, let us move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

The point of order was on a matter of relevance and repetition. They go together, as you know. I think the member is correct on this matter. We have talked about hypothetical cases of transfers. For the life of me, the Elections Canada issue is not about whether or not there were transfers; it's about whether someone exceeded the national advertising spending limit and engaged, or somehow had the involvement of, some of their candidates to make that happen.

The issue is a national party that...we're not dealing with that. But there are some members who have been named specifically. I know that we have these subamendments, but talking about hypotheticals of transfers is not helping us get to the point here.

So let's see if we can move on and speak to the motions, please.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

On a point of personal privilege, Mr. Chair, I will not accept....

Perhaps you've heard something that I've said before, Madame Lavallée, and you elected not to listen to it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

But I have sat in the House of Commons, Mr. Chair, and listened to these people speak the same page--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

--day after day, supplementing a riding name in, and nobody cuts them off. It's my personal privilege to be able to speak to matters.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order, please. Order.

Let's just take a moment here. We have had over ten hours of debate on these motions. It has deteriorated into procedural wrangling, points of order that are not points of order, repetition in the extreme, and irrelevance with regard to the matters before us.

We could carry on like this, just as the procedure and House affairs committee did, for a very long time. I'm not sure that's in the best interest of this committee. I'm not sure whether I want to be part of where the members are going to continue to be, and that's in a position where we're spinning our wheels.

Accordingly, I'm going to rule that we put all the questions necessary to dispose of the matter before us now.

Yes.

[Marcel Proulx, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I challenge your decision, Mr. Chair.

[Gary Goodyear, Conservative, Cambridge, ON]

Thank you, Marcel. Finally there is somebody with integrity.