Evidence of meeting #45 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was questions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Right. But is it legal if the candidates decide they want to sign and share in the federal expenses and record them as local expenses? Is that permitted?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
If local campaigns decide that they want to absorb some of the costs of the national campaign and declare them as local expenses in order to receive an enhanced reimbursement and to lower the national spending beneath the limit, is that allowed?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Again, as I mentioned earlier, transfers of expenses are not allowed either way.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
So, why have you not looked into the case of the Bloc Québécois, as Elections Canada is doing now, when it systematically transferred expenses for national advertising, in its own words, to local candidates? Why did you not look into that? All of the facts relating to that case are public. Why not look into that case?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Order.
All right, just a moment. We've been here a long time for this morning session. It's already one o'clock.
Excuse me. Mr. Poilievre, you have posed a question and I'm going to ask Mr. Mayrand to respond.
But, Madame Lavallée, you did say the words “point of order”, and I'm going to ask you nicely if you can assure me that this is in fact a real point of order.
Bloc
Bloc
Carole Lavallée Bloc Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, QC
So the subject is not relevant because the motion we have passed and what we are currently looking into concern the ethics of public office holders in the Conservative Party and not in the Bloc Québécois.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Yes, we have already had a brief discussion of this and the relevance of it. The relevance question is a valid point of order, and thank you. I think the colleagues understand that there is this concern about dealing with periods outside of the current motion--elections back to 1997 or the year 2000, with regard to other persons and other rules as they existed at that time. There would have to be a very significant amount of work done just to understand the context in which we would consider some of those questions.
Having said that, we can debate this for a little while longer, but the question has been posed. Mr. Poilievre still has three and a half minutes.
Mr. Mayrand, is there anything you wish to respond to in Mr. Poilievre's first question? No?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I'm not privy to the information that Mr. Poilievre referred to, and I do not comment on this.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Could you start the clock again, then?
Mr. Poilievre, do you want to continue?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Yes.
In a case where there is a systematic program to transfer $12,000 per riding from the national campaign to the local campaigns for expenses that are explicitly and admittedly national, then you have an example where expenses have been transferred and that transfer has been permitted. I'm curious as to why Elections Canada has not looked into the case of the Bloc Québécois transfer of expenses from its national campaign to its local campaigns. Can you elaborate at all?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
I don't have comments on specific cases. I would have to look into it.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Can you pledge to get back to us on why Elections Canada has not looked into this case, then?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
In due course. You have made that commitment. That's a yes?
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
All right, because here we have an example where roughly $800,000 in television advertising of a national character was expensed locally for the explicit purpose of increasing the reimbursements to which candidates were permitted. That is precisely the crime of which the opposition is accusing the Conservative Party, and I don't see any action whatsoever from Elections Canada.
And that is why Gilles Duceppe is well known as the Father of In and Out, Mr. Chair. And we have here the five factors that you say are very important.
Can you tell us where it says in the law that an official agent must have detailed knowledge of the media advertising that his campaign purchases? Is that in the law anywhere?
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
Again, as I indicated this morning, I'm tasked under the legislation to verify the claims that are submitted for public funds reimbursement. In order to do so, I need to determine whether the claims, as submitted, are for electoral expenses--
Conservative
Chief Electoral Officer, Elections Canada
The electoral expenses have to be incurred by the candidate.