Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was letter.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
It's hard for me. I'm just a poor country guy, but to think that someone who was Prime Minister for nine years was so hard up he had to call somebody who just had a billion-dollar contract, involved with that, invite him out to his resort, and say, “Mr. Schreiber, I need some cash. I'm soon not going to be Prime Minister. I'm a lawyer. I'm a former executive with the Iron Ore Company of Canada. I have a lot of contacts. But yet I need some of your money.”
Is that the conversation that was held?
As an Individual
No. He didn't even ask directly for the money on that day. The situation was a bit different, sir, and if I may remind you, I think I mentioned it.
The conversation started with Fred Doucet, more or less about the mess Mr. Mulroney was in because it was in the media that he sold—or his wife, whoever, sold—the furniture from 24 Sussex, which belonged to the government, because he had no money.
So Elmer MacKay, who used to be the Minister of Public Works, was nearly out of his mind. He had bought the furniture. Now the Mulroneys were selling the furniture. The furniture had to be brought back.
So I knew about the terrible financial situation. There was nothing to be discussed. To be very frank with you, I would not have created an embarrassment for Mr. Mulroney. I would have had no reason for that. When I came there, I knew what it was. I had made up my mind. I would see whether I could help him, see whether there was a reason, whether he could do something. There was the reason of the unification of Germany. I was pretty much prepared to tell him, okay, we could work together if we do.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
But at that point, Mr. Schreiber—we know there was at least $20 million involved—I don't know if you knew at that time, but at least $10 million of that $20 million was missing. No one knew exactly where it went. You spoke this morning about cash, that it was an easy way not to get people involved. Only the payer and payee knew. Cash was the no-trail system.
There was this group called GCI, set up with Frank Moores, with operatives. A lot of money was floating around. Do you think Mr. Doucet thought that Mr. Schreiber would be a good source of money?
Also, Mr. Schreiber, did you believe in your heart of hearts that Mr. Mulroney had received money before this, for his work around the Airbus?
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
But you seemed to reflect this morning that there might have been money. It seemed some people felt there were more—as Cameron said—“on the take”. Who all was on the take?
You talk about this list of people this GCI was distributing money to. Do you know who they were? Could you present to our committee a list of the various trust companies and individuals who were getting money from that $20 million...?
As an Individual
No, sir, the way that works, when the orders came...first of all, there is this account; everybody knows it's for the social union. Then, of course, there are the orders where you just withdraw the money in cash and you put it into a numbered account, either in the same currency or different.
But let me tell you something. Otherwise, you will never get the right understanding on this. In this world, where the money goes, the first thing you have to do is to make sure your client understands there is no proof the money was sent, because if you try to keep proof—I don't know in what business you are involved—it's only for one reason: to use it in the next round to blackmail for another order. That is deadly, sir.
Therefore, if you want to be a professional in that world, make sure the money goes and nobody can find out how it went.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
But currently, today, Mr. Schreiber, Canadians are watching this. Do you really believe this is the Canadian way? Do you believe you're called to Harrington Lake to talk about money—money for Mr. Mulroney—but then money wasn't talked about?
I only have a short time left, Mr. Chair.
You must have had a hard time as a conservative. You watched 13 years of good government—not in your opinion, but in mine—and with it, you must have sat back watching a number of people trying to become Prime Minister. Eventually, Brian Mulroney and Peter MacKay made a deal, and we have a new leader of the Conservative Party. You must have been elated, in January 2006, and you saw your way to fix your problem.
As an Individual
Yes, and I'm deeply disappointed. Everybody knows. There's no secret on this.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
There's no secret. The way to do this, apparently, was for you to again write a letter to Mr. Mulroney.
How did you know that Mr. Mulroney was meeting with Mr. Harper?
As an Individual
Because I learned from Elmer MacKay that the meeting was on by the end of July, the first part of August. I told you already all the details, what the feedback was.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
The feedback of that meeting was that he had discussed it with Mr. Harper, and you expected some good Conservative results.
As an Individual
What I wanted, sir, and I will make it very clear again for each and every Canadian: I wanted the inquiry. It is in each and every letter. I want my name cleared in this whole mess I am in because of the Conservatives. That's the problem.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
He told you that it was a good meeting and they were going to do something for you after that meeting at Harrington Lake.
As an Individual
I had my doubts, but I hoped he was finally coming to grips and was doing the right thing, yes, sir.
Liberal
Charles Hubbard Liberal Miramichi, NB
Today in your testimony--yesterday, too, last time--you're very critical of Mr. Mulroney, but you feel Mr. MacKay, the younger MacKay, is also not a very good friend of yours and not a very good friend of what you thought he should have done.
As an Individual
Well, he never was a close friend of mine. In order to be fair, I never socialized with him so I could make a huge judgment on him. What I referred to that day is we wanted to have some people recruited from Canada, send them to Thyssen, and let them work. All my observations were later on. I keep...really, with great thanks to Elmer MacKay, that friendship, but I have nothing in common with his son.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Yes.
All those who aren't going to be involved with the in camera meeting, please pack up your stuff now. I want no interviews whatsoever in this room. Take it outside.
Mr. Schreiber, it would appear, and I'm going to give you notice right now, that we will require you next Tuesday, December 11, to appear again at 11 a.m. We will confirm that with you.
I'm going to suspend now.
[Proceedings continue in camera]