Information & Ethics Committee on April 27th, 2009

[Christiane Ouimet]

We have an excellent relationship with the disclosure ethics group. In fact, the lawyer I was referring to has been in contact with us. I myself have worked very closely with the RCMP at least three or four times in my career on the operational side, on the policy side.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

How is the information getting out to the rank and file? Do you have printed materials? Have you produced it so that every officer receives that sort of information?

[Christiane Ouimet]

In fact, it was also quoted and reported by the Public Service Agency, as it existed, as some of the best practices.

We'd be happy to provide, in the form of a letter, what we've gathered as far as general information, practices, and exchanges are concerned.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

Sure, and it would be even more helpful if you provided us with the materials you've provided to RCMP members explaining your availability and that they no longer have to go to their superiors when complaints arise.

[Christiane Ouimet]

In fact, we offered to make a presentation to the executive group of the RCMP very early in our mandate. I'll be happy to provide--

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

They are the very people, as we heard in other committees, who did a lot of the intimidating and reprisals. I'm curious about the information you provide rank-and-file RCMP officers if they have complaints.

You said in a somewhat different context that you've interpreted your mandate more broadly than perhaps was written. There are civil servants out there who are still suffering as a consequence of attempts to do the right thing. They blew the whistle, and reprisals were taken against them. That was before your office came into existence, but they're still out there suffering in silence.

Do you see your office being able to take on cases from the past that are still outstanding? If so, how would you go about making former civil servants, public servants, and RCMP officers aware of this potential?

[Christiane Ouimet]

We have no such jurisdiction.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

If someone came to you and said, “Three years ago I was removed from my job. At that point I had no one to turn to. I was removed from my job because I saw a senior officer who was in charge of my department...the very officer I had to report malfeasance to, and soon afterwards I suffered a punitive removal. I don't have the resources to go after this. I don't have a union to stand up for me.” Where does that leave those public servants who served the public interest, at times for decades?

[Christiane Ouimet]

Parliament has given us a mandate, and we have to apply the legislation as it was given to us. But I can assure you that if there is a venue that remains available for anybody who comes to us, we're happy to guide them to that venue. But we have to apply the act as it was presented to us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Hiebert, please.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I know that you report to another committee on your budget, but I couldn't help notice that your spending for 2008-09 was about $3.7 million, and your planned spending for the next fiscal year is $6.5 million--approximately double. Can you could provide us with an explanation of why your budget is doubling year over year?

[Christiane Ouimet]

The information on the expenditures for this fiscal year has just been made available, so what you're reading was for the previous fiscal year. For the fiscal year that just ended--this is standard--you always project generally the expenditures for which Parliament has voted--the budget--to the best of your ability. Our organization is still evolving, from the senior financial officer's perspective, so you try to predict. But the expenditures are very close to those that were expended last year.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

You mean your prediction for this coming year.

[Christiane Ouimet]

Yes. For the year that just ended, it was exactly the same: $3.6 million. It was $3.6 million for the previous fiscal year, which you're reading. While the projection was for the full $6.5 million that Parliament voted for my office, I'm very conscious of every single dollar that is being expended. So we're not going to expend money, even though the budget has been allocated and is $6.5 million. In fact, we expended exactly the same amount.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

So you anticipate that your expenditures for this coming year will be the same as for the past year.

[Christiane Ouimet]

The expenditures you are reading were for fiscal year 2007-08.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

No, they are for 2008-09.

[Christiane Ouimet]

The 2008-09 numbers were the projection of how much we were going to expend, but we completed the fiscal year on March 31. I just had the report, and in fact what we expended for the last fiscal year was similar to the previous fiscal year.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I see, and you anticipate that will continue.

[Christiane Ouimet]

We just completed a strategic planning exercise around Christmastime. We are in the process right now of realigning our operational priorities. We will allocate the budget. We've had a preliminary budget allocated, but over the next few weeks we will look at the priorities. There will be investment, for instance, in case management systems, information management. This is the basic infrastructure you need when you start a new organization. Based on that, in a few months' time we will have allocated the budget. But essentially the last two fiscal years were in the $3.6 million range for expenditures.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I note that you have about 41 employees.

[Christiane Ouimet]

The $6.5 million was based on a projection of 41 employees, but we have not reached that level. We are planning to have about 23 to 24 employees. In order to make the most of resources, we will have a list of some top-notch mediators who are available. We will hire people part-time. We will also have a group of people we can recruit quickly, should additional resources be acquired.

[Russ Hiebert, Conservative, South Surrey—White Rock—Cloverdale, BC]

I'm obviously very supportive of the work you do, but when I think about two dozen employees facing about 200 inquiries a year, and only about three to five investigations, I wonder if everybody is being kept busy. That's about 20 per month or one per employee. Am I misunderstanding that?

[Christiane Ouimet]

Yes, it's a little more than that. I would probably refer you to the 59 cases of disclosures and the 22 of reprisals. On some of the cases that will be in the next annual report, some people under the previous office worked between a year and a year and half, almost full-time.

I should also mention that depending on the issue, we also occasionally have lawyer investigators. I was expanding on some of the backgrounds of our colleagues on the legal side. It is important, because under the previous administrative office they occasionally wore the hats of an investigator and a lawyer. Of course, my deputy commissioner will remind me that you have to be very careful. You can't have a lawyer advise on an issue that he's investigating. This is one of the challenges of federal small agencies as well.

So we are balancing the current resources, and the office has been incredibly busy. We have both outside and inside training sessions. We also reach out to that group of senior officers to get practical suggestions on the prevention side. I refer to my next annual report, which will be tabled shortly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I'd like to exercise the chairman's discretion to amplify some of Mr. Hiebert's concerns here. Your actual expenditures are $3.6 million. If you had a full complement you'd be at $6.5 million.