I do think it comes from the top. I think deputy ministers, etc., have to show that this is significant. It can be in people's performance appraisals. It can be reflected. Maybe they should be getting rewarded in some way for finding ways to make things more open.
A lot of the technology that exists to make things more open is expensive, so there are a lot of balances in terms of where you're going to spend money and so forth. But on the culture and the ideas, I think that instead of rewarding people for keeping things secret and not disclosing, there should be rewards for and appreciation shown to individuals who find ways to be more open and who exude the principles in the legislation.