Information & Ethics Committee on June 17th, 2009

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

I'm sorry, Mr. Vincent, just let me expand it a bit.

The privacy commissioners--Canadian, Alberta, British Columbia, and Quebec--did raise the issue of key protections in their fact sheet about this, and I'll just quote from their document: “...one of your key protections under Canadian privacy law is that you should know when your picture is being taken for commercial reasons, and what your image will be used for.”

Is that an interpretation of the law that Google and Canpages would agree with? Does it affect how you see the issue of notification?

[Olivier Vincent]

I'll try to answer that.

Indeed, we are a business, so there has to be an ultimate commercial purpose. People's silhouette appearing on our blurred images is an accident. We are not taking people's photos for commercial reasons. Actually, we don't want them in the photo. That is why we take them away and blur them. So in that sense I don't think we are exploiting these images for commercial purposes at all.

At the end of the day, we do connect buyers and sellers, but many people use the service for free to have a general tour of the area, and there will be absolutely no commerce conducted. They find it beautiful; they find it useful. We help families find new neighbourhoods; we help entrepreneurs find new real estate. Although it may sound amusing, there is a feel-good purpose behind it. It is a beautiful product. We were the first ones to bring it to the country and we know it's thoroughly enjoyed by the people using it, and that feels good.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

And I have to admit that I'm a happy user of the service, many times actually, so I'm going to be clear about that.

Mr. Lister, in Japan I understand there was a particular cultural issue around a different sensibility around privacy and that Google recently made a change to lower the camera so that it didn't see over the fences that people commonly have in front of their homes. Has Google seen those different kinds of cultural differences in other places? Do you expect to find that in Canada, where we're a multicultural society and may not have a uniform understanding or expectation around privacy?

[Jonathan Lister]

Part of the beauty of what I get to do for a living and part of the beauty of the work that Google does in the industry is that it changes all the time. Part of the reason I'm here today and Google's here today is to listen and learn, and we're more than open to finding out the unique and important local and relevant concerns. That's part of what this process is all about. Part of the reason we'll work with stakeholder groups is to uncover some of these local issues that we can't possibly be aware of in advance. As you will see evidence of in the Japan example, we take measures to meet the privacy concerns and obligations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

Mrs. Simson, please.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Just to pick up on what Mr. Siksay's line of questioning was, not only were there concerns, but I understand that all of Japan's imagery was being reshot. There's obviously a huge price to Google for doing that, and I'd really like you to elaborate on that concern. That's my first question.

My second question to both of you--I didn't get a definitive answer--is whether you have any definitive numbers in terms of complaints you've received from individuals. Obviously we know about Japan, but I mean personal complaints that you've received on the toggle on your sites.

[Jonathan Lister]

Sorry, I missed the first question. Would you mind repeating it? You were following on Mr. Siksay's question, but I didn't catch what you wanted.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'm wondering what the exact nature of the Japanese concern was, because the information we received is that all of Japan's imagery was being reshot, and that's obviously at a significant cost to Google. So there must have been some merit to it. Specifically I'd like to know what the nature of their complaint collectively would have been.

[Jonathan Lister]

I don't know the nature of the complaint, but what it speaks to is our willingness and Google's willingness to re-drive an entire nation if we feel the complaints are founded or if we're in agreement that they are justifiable complaints. And I might add that we're re-driving all of Canada as well--well, maybe not all of Canada. We started to drive Canada, and we decided not to use that imagery, so as you say, at great expense we are re-driving the nation.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Mr. Lister, a whole country is being reshot, and your testimony is that you can't tell us what the exact nature of the complaint was with respect to the Japanese concerns?

[Jonathan Lister]

In Japan, no, I don't know. We can get it for you. I don't know the nature of the complaint in Japan.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

I'd really appreciate that, because that's a whole country being reshot. That's significant.

[Jonathan Lister]

As much as I can, I'll try to find out and get you the nature of that complaint.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

And for both of you, this is just an idea. Could you give us the number of complaints you receive online, where people have requested that their images, images of their house, or whatever...?

[Olivier Vincent]

We've had zero complaints, none, not a single one. We've had a few people use the mechanism to give us suggestions, which I found pretty amusing, and many of them were good suggestions actually. So that was nice. But as for complaints, we've had none to date.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Mr. Lister.

[Jonathan Lister]

We're a significant, large organization. We get complaints regularly about any number of different things. I'm sure we've had complaints on our site and to our organization about Street View. However, I'm not familiar. There have certainly not been a significant number of them, but we have had a significant amount of positive feedback and positive responses.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

No. When I say “complaints”, maybe I used the wrong expression. I'm talking about people who have specifically gone on, clicked on and said “I want off”. Is that something you're tracking?

[Jonathan Lister]

Right. I'm just trying to clarify.

We haven't launched the product here, so there aren't images for anybody to take down.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

What about elsewhere?

[Jonathan Lister]

Are you talking about in other countries?

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Yes, I mean elsewhere, overall.

[Jonathan Lister]

Again, I don't know. We can try to get you numbers. I don't have the numbers. All I know is that overwhelmingly the feedback has been extremely positive.

[Michelle Simson, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Poilievre.