Evidence of meeting #31 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mandate.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, the guidelines are another thing; they are out of our bailiwick.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I understand that, and I wish they weren't.
I think this is what many members have said around here, that we seem to have two streams of accountability: one under the Federal Accountability Act, being the conflict of interest; the other being the PCO code for ministers and ministers of state and other public office-holders, over which you have no jurisdiction.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
So there's a mismatch between your mandate and the tools you have to discharge that mandate, and I guess that's what we want to look at.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I haven't looked at them lately, but I'm not sure how extensive those are. Those may not cover the whole bailiwick that you want to cover either.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
They cover political activities, basically.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
The major additional element is political activities of public office-holders.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
And that's why the Prime Minister, in his note, described them as complementing the Conflict of Interest Act, because it has a new section that makes it a more comprehensive regime. Unfortunately, that comprehensive regime is not totally under your mandate.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's correct.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I think we understand each other.
Members, Mr. Siksay had asked whether we should consider having someone from PCO talk to us about these guides. If it's the will of the committee, we could do that on November 17. Has there been an opportunity to discuss this?
Mr. Rickford.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
Mr. Chair, I think we can talk about committee business in camera.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
It's just to get rid of that point, because I think we're running out of questions and we're going to adjourn.
Conservative
Greg Rickford Conservative Kenora, ON
Then let's adjourn and go in camera to talk about committee business with respect to adding things to the agenda.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
All right.
Madame Freeman had a brief question and so did Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. Let's finish our questions and we'll be able to excuse the commissioner.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
On page 22 of your report, you state the following: “Investigative work is conducted in strict confidence by my office. Only when I complete an examination are my findings made public.” The report goes on to state that where you do not proceed beyond an initial complaint, you find it unfortunate that you are limited in your ability to make public your reasons for not pursuing a matter, especially in cases involving well-publicized and controversial allegations.
What do you suggest should be done to deal with such a situation?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I haven't got a draft at hand, but I would suggest that maybe I be given the authority to release my reasons for not proceeding with an investigation.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
In your report, you state that when you do not proceed with a complaint, you cannot make your reasons known, especially in well-publicized cases. I do not want to refer back to what we have been talking about earlier, but in well-publicized cases, when a complaint is filed and you cannot proceed with it, you cannot disclose the reasons for your decision. You find that unfortunate. I am therefore asking what you would propose to correct the situation.
Is my question now clear?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes, your question is clear.
As I say, I haven't got a draft in front of me. I haven't exactly thought about how, but an amendment could be made to allow me to use my discretion, perhaps, to disclose the reasons I did not proceed with an investigation.
For example, the reason could be that it was outside my mandate. Nobody knows that and so they don't know why I haven't proceeded with the investigation. Or there could be examples where there are misrepresentations by people as to the situation that I can't counter.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
I would like to ask you a very hypothetical question. With regard to the allegations that are currently before us, if for whatever reason you could not proceed with your examination, you could not inform the public of the reasons why you cannot proceed with the examination.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Or do not want to. Yes, that is the situation.
When I'm dealing specifically with the individuals involved, I usually write them a letter explaining the situation. If they release that letter, and it's up to them, that's at their discretion. That is the only way that reasoning could be released that I can see.
Bloc
Carole Freeman Bloc Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
You refer to correspondence. Is that the correspondence you send to the complainant or to the person against whom the complaint is made?