Information & Ethics Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

--but previously...is not relevant to the order, before other business.

[Bob Dechert, Conservative, Mississauga—Erindale, ON]

Well, I've been letting a lot of it go throughout the session today, but I read the commissioner's report in detail and I listened to her comments earlier today in her opening statement. Clearly, none of it refers to the minister's letter of response to this committee's report, so I fail to see how this is relevant.

Either the member's time is his or her own to make whatever comments he or she feels is relevant to the people they represent, or it should be specifically related to the matter that the witness is here to report on, which in this case is the annual report for 2008-09 of the Information Commissioner of Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

On the same point of order, in order of interventions, we have Mr. Siksay, Madam Freeman, and Mr. Wrzesnewskyj. We'll go in that order, please.

Mr. Siksay.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I think this is a matter of relevance. In fact, the acting commissioner raised the issue of the government response in her statement this morning to the committee, on page 3, where she talked about sharing the committee's “and indeed many stakeholders' disappointment in the government response to these recommendations”.

So I think this is a perfectly appropriate line of questioning. That's my point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Madam Freeman.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I wanted to stress this aspect and also note that on pages 42 and 43 of the annual report there is a plea for legislative reform. That is part of the annual report.

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Merci.

Mr. Wrzesnewskyj, please.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Order.

[Borys Wrzesnewskyj, Liberal, Etobicoke Centre, ON]

When you look at the problems with the access to information system that we have in place, we're looking at the results of a report.... When you go to the actual root causes and the culture of secrecy that has evolved to the point where you have a dysfunction in the access to information system, it's quite relevant that this committee spent 10 sessions going through 12 recommendations for fixes to provide a true access to information system for the Canadian public.

We're actually addressing the root causes of the dysfunction and finding ways to resolve the current situation, so it's of tremendous relevance that we discuss and bring up questions as to why the minister would deem to be so dismissive in his letter, with, as was pointed out by the previous commissioner, 300 words to a well-thought-out report that was tabled by this committee in a very non-partisan way in the House of Commons. I think it has tremendous relevance.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[An hon. member]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

I'm sorry, we're not going to get into that discussion.

When we have a point of order, members have an opportunity to intervene and give their opinions without taking more time than is absolutely necessary and being repetitive or not relevant. I think members have had an opportunity to make their points.

The arguments raised by the members are self-explanatory and reflect the facts, therefore I'm going to rule the point of order out of order.

We'll move back to Madam Freeman.

You have two and a half minutes left.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In his response to the committee's recommendations, Mr. Nicholson said he did not want to create expanded powers of a quasi-judicial nature for the Commissioner. He referred to recommendation 5, under which the Access to Information Act would give the Commissioner an education mandate. He doesn't want to give us quasi-judicial powers. I have some trouble understanding the connection, but you may be able to see something I don't see.

Recommendation 6 says: "That the Access to Information Act provide an advisory mandate to the Information Commissioner on proposed legislative initiatives." That also gives you expanded quasi-judicial powers. He also referred to recommendation 9, which says: "That the Access to Information Act require the approval of the Information Commissioner for all extensions beyond sixty days," and again said he does not want to create

Is his response really referring to quasi-judicial powers?

[Suzanne Legault]

Mr. Chair, quasi-judicial powers mainly refer to powers to make orders in administrative cases, which would create an order-making power that would be like a quasi-judicial power. That is how I understand his response.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Do you think a public education mandate gives you a quasi-judicial function?

[Suzanne Legault]

No, I don't think so.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Do you think that providing advice on legislative initiatives gives you a quasi-judicial function.

[Suzanne Legault]

No, I don't think so, there again.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Do you think that the requirement that all extensions beyond 60 days be approved by the Information Commissioner gives you a quasi-judicial power?

[Suzanne Legault]

That point is a little more debatable, depending on how the provision were worded. It could give us a quasi-judicial power because that requirement goes with the recommendation that we have order-making power for administrative matters. That would be an administrative matter, so it would be included.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

If it is in the Act, it is administrative.

[Suzanne Legault]

If it goes together with an order-making power, yes, because it is an administrative matter. The two together might give us quasi-judicial powers.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Okay. So two of the three to not confer quasi-judicial powers. That response is not entirely appropriate.

[Suzanne Legault]

That is my understanding.