Evidence of meeting #6 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office-holders.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
No.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
It's the government. She's just applying the act, and I don't think she can explain what happens when an act changes and somebody is no longer in the scrutiny process.
You're not responsible for the act itself.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
That's right.
I'm having trouble hearing the questions. I'm sorry, but that's why I'm answering you in English. It's because I'm getting the English. If you'll excuse me....
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
I see. What are the differences between the former conflict of interest code and the new act? What are the main changes?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The main changes in the code are probably the application of investigations beyond ministers and parliamentary secretaries to anybody covered by the act. That's probably the biggest change. The other is the possibility of applying penalties under the act. That did not exist before under the code. Those are the two main changes.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
You are hoping people will be better at meeting deadlines in the future, particularly in the implementation of the new regime for the upcoming fiscal year. You spoke about penalties. What are they?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The maximum penalty that I can impose is $500, and they're all related to deadlines that are missed. It's not for failure to comply with the conflict of interest rules; they're for deadlines. They're called administrative monetary penalties and they're like fines effectively.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
I see.
You were asked to look into the Dimitri Soudas case. You said that because of the date on which the request was made, it was shown that Mr. Soudas had not violated the 2006 code.
Can you provide me with some explanation regarding this statement?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Mr. Soudas was investigated, but he was basically exonerated in my report. He was found to have not failed to comply with the predecessor of the act.
It gets very confusing, because before the act there was a code for public office-holders. Now there's a code for MPs but an act for public office-holders.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Would the decision regarding Mr. Soudas have been the same or different under the new act?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I think the decision would have been the same. I basically found that he had done the job expected of him as an assistant in the Prime Minister's Office. He had simply looked into a long-standing court case that had gone on for about 10 years. It was quite reasonable that he asked the department what was going on with that. I found that he had not interfered with the process at the public service level.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here today, Ms. Dawson. I mentioned to you earlier that I saw some of your educational and outreach work the other morning at a presentation you made, and it was very good. I know that was helpful to everybody in the room.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Thank you very much.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
I have a couple of questions on the complaints you receive. Can you receive complaints directly from the public that you would investigate?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I can receive complaints and I have the power to self-initiate a complaint, but I'm not required to follow up on a complaint unless I think there are reasonable grounds. Then it's at my discretion as to whether I follow it up.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
You are required to follow up on complaints from members of Parliament and senators.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Yes.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Is that the only group of complaints that you are required to follow up on?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I think Parliament can ask me to do one too.
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
When you get a complaint from the public, is a different process involved? Do you determine whether or not you're going to investigate it? That sounds like an investigation of sorts in its own right. What happens when you get a public complaint?
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
There's a different process under the MPs' code and under the act. I assume you're asking about the act.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Under the act there aren't too many rules around it, so I would basically follow the same process if I were going to self-initiate as I would follow for one requested by an MP or a senator.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
When you reach a conclusion, are there categories of conclusions? Do you offer opinions that are different from a ruling? I probably don't have the right language for that, but are there different ways that you would offer advice or rulings?