Evidence of meeting #6 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was office-holders.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I think there are two things there. MPs are public office-holders, but not designated public office-holders. But if there were communication going on with public office-holders, then they would need to look at whether they needed to file.... There would still be an initial registration being filed. The question might be whether a monthly report might be required.
Liberal
Borys Wrzesnewskyj Liberal Etobicoke Centre, ON
Finally, I noted that it states that certain members of the armed forces would be covered, and certain members of the RCMP also.
At what level of office-holders in those two departments would it have to be reported?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
No matter what level they are at in the RCMP or armed forces, they would be public office-holders. So if a consultant lobbyist were communicating with a person at any level there, then they would have to register. In house, they would become part...and they would have to factor in the significant amount of duties to determine whether registration was required.
In terms of monthly reporting being required, it would depend on the level the individual was at. In the regulations, the government designated seven particular positions in the armed forces. In my interpretation bulletin, I've determined that anybody at an EX-4 level or the equivalent salary range would be considered a designated public office-holder, and any communication that had have been arranged with those individuals would have to be captured in the monthly report.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Good afternoon, Ms. Shepherd and welcome to the committee.
As you know, the Federal Accountability Act received royal assent in 2006. Most of its provisions came into force shortly after that. I fail to understand why the provisions on lobbying came into effect only last July.
Why was there such a long delay?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I must say that I honestly have difficulty answering the question, because we were not responsible for the legislation. At the time, Treasury Board was responsible for enforcing the act.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
You made the following statement in your presentation:
[...] the Commissioner of Lobbying can conduct an investigation if he or she has reason to believe that an investigation is necessary to ensure compliance with the Code or the Act. The investigative powers of the Commissioner of Lobbying allow him or her to diligently enforce both the Act and the Code.
Given that the act sets forth offences and criminal sanctions for violations of the act, does this mean that you must cease any investigation and inform the appropriate authorities if you have reasonable grounds to believe that a person has committed an offence under the act?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Would it not have been more effective to allow the Commissioner of Lobbying to complete his or her investigation rather than resorting to criminal sanctions, which are governed by an outside organization?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Since the act does provide for criminal sanctions, I have no choice but to ask the RCMP to investigate.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Would it not be more effective if you were to complete your investigation before turning over the file?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I think it would, but it is up to Parliament to change the rules in order to give me the power to do so.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
We know that the lobbying legislation obliges lobbyists to make a monthly report. We also know that the legislation gives you the authority to check whether the information lobbyists provide is accurate and true.
Do you use that authority regularly?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, we have established a process. So far, we have checked some 13% of monthly reports up to the end of November. Moreover, and that is something very good for us, public office holders regularly examine those monthly statements, and have noted that there could be errors in the system.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Generally, what do you observe in looking at those statements?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
In the 13% of the monthly statements we have checked so far, we have noted an error rate of approximately 7%.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
How did you select the 13% of the monthly statements that you examined?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
That is a good question. In fact, each month some 600 reports are generated within the system. One person in my office has been given the task of checking the system regularly, to determine where errors might occur. In order to be more efficient, we can send a letter to the public office holder and determine whether there is more than one entry for a given person.
That is quite new. After about four months, we will determine if we wish to change our procedures. We are therefore open to suggestions.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
You indicated how you selected the 13%. Are we to believe that, within a given time period, everyone who has submitted statements will be checked? Do you make random checks, or spot checks?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If we find errors, we communicate with the public office holders in question. We go back to the lobbyists themselves, since they are responsible for the statement, and we ask them to make any changes needed.
At present, it is not possible for the lobbyists themselves to make those changes, but we ask them to respond within 10 days so that we can enter the changes in the system ourselves.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Your acting position has been extended by six months. In addition, you said that there was an ongoing process that might culminate in the appointment of a permanent commissioner once your second acting term is over.
Is that correct?
Interim Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Frankly, I don't have any details on that.
