Evidence of meeting #7 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was requests.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Good afternoon and welcome, Commissioner.
I am going to start by asking you some questions about a motion my colleague Ms. Freeman, the member for Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, presented at the committee on February 11.
I will read it to you:
That the Committee recommend that the Government introduce in the House, by March 31, 2009, a new, stronger and more modern Access to Information Act, drawing on the work of the Information Commissioner John Reid, and that, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Committee Chair promptly report the adoption of this motion to the House.
I would like you to comment on this motion and tell me whether you think it will make it possible to get an updated Access to Information Act.
3:55 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I don't know what you are expecting exactly in the way of comments on this motion, because it has already been passed by the committee. I can tell you at the outset that I support the draft bill put forward by my predecessor for this committee and subsequently tabled. In the last Parliament, it was adopted by the committee and the House actually adopted the committee's report.
That said, I did take the time over the past year to consult access to information users and others who work in the field. I asked them what the priorities should be for legislative reform or modernization. You will find that information in the document I tabled with the committee today. It sets out 12 recommendations. That is not everything I would like to see, but I think these things could be done quickly, and they would be the absolute minimum. I am quite convinced that only the government can undertake an in-depth reform of the act. Based on my past experience, I think a royal recommendation would have to be attached to this bill, and that only a minister could present such a bill.
The 12 recommendations I am making to the committee are an absolute minimum. Those are the most urgent issues. You will see that my paper is based on provincial and international precedents, on demands made by the committee that preceded this one, namely the Justice Committee, or on other studies, such as the Delagrave report.
We have not invented anything new. We have simply put together the most urgent demands.
3:55 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
In your opening comments you said that there had been an 80% increase in complaints and that there was still a backlog. What percentage of your work does the backlog account for at the moment?
3:55 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
I do not know whether I can give you a percentage, but as of April 1, 2008, there were some 1,600 cases in the backlog. I believe there were 1,560 cases before the new fiscal year. We are now referring to these cases as the inventory, and they have been referred to a special team that is dealing with the oldest cases. We are making tremendous progress. By the end of the fiscal year, I expect we will have reduced this part of the backlog by more than one-third, by perhaps 500 or 600 cases. That will put us on the right track—as I promised last year in my appearance before the committee—in order to process these cases in the backlog before the end of the next fiscal year.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
When people make an access to information request, they have to send in a payment with the request. Often, when they receive the documents, some of the information, and not just the names, have been blacked out, and so sometimes they have to submit a second request on the same subject.
The fact that the information may be incomplete might be a factor in increasing the number of access to information requests, might it not?
4 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
When people request information in which passages have been blacked out and think this has been overdone, they may complain to our office. Most of the time, more information is released following our investigation. Complaints of this type account for close to 50% of our workload, and the rest are administrative complaints.
With respect to complaints about redacted passages, or exemptions or exclusions, we manage to settle almost half of them. I am rounding out my figures here. We manage to settle 50% of them. We also find that almost half of these complaints are unfounded, that is that the passages have been redacted in accordance with the standards set out in the act.
4 p.m.
Bloc
Ève-Mary Thaï Thi Lac Bloc Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC
Could the workload not be reduced and the number of request reduced as well by reviewing the data that can be sent out at the outset? That would greatly reduce the number of times people have to request information more than once. This would reduce the number of requests the system must process.
4 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
The better the coordinators are trained, and the more access they have to adequate resources in order to do their work properly, the fewer complaints I will receive. I agree with you on that.
4 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here today with your colleagues, Mr. Marleau.
I suspect that you and other information commissioners around the world were excited by President Obama's first act of setting a very clear presumption of openness for his government. The very first thing he did was make a statement and executive order around access to information. In fact he said in that executive order that “The Freedom of Information Act should be administered with a clear presumption: In the face of doubt, openness prevails.” He went on to say: “All agencies should adopt a presumption in favour of disclosure in order to renew their commitment to the principles embodied in the FOIA.”
Is that the kind of thing you mean when you talk about a culture of openness or a cultural shift that's necessary for the Freedom of Information Act, or the Access to Information Act in Canada, to be administered appropriately?
4 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In 1983, when the statute was adopted, that was the presumption--that the statute would be a last resource, that informal access to information would be easy and continue the way it was before the act was adopted.
Unfortunately, I think over time the default position was to file an access request. There's no question that a certain lack of leadership over the years has contributed to that culture of non-disclosure or default position of non-disclosure.
So when the leader of an administration makes such a strong statement, it becomes a strong signal to those who work in his administration to serve the public according to the terms of the statute, and it has considerable impact.
I believe that Canadian public servants do want to do the best they can in serving the Canadian public. But they do need direction from the top. I said last week in a press conference that a similar statement by our own political leaders, the Prime Minister, or a minister within his own department, would go a long way to start changing that culture.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Have you ever seen that kind of statement from an official high up in the Canadian government in the time that you've been Information Commissioner?
4:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Yes, I have. It was from an official high up in the Canadian government, not from a minister directly. Although I know from conversations with a minister that he'd made a personal commitment to turn his department around, and he did. But without the ministerial support and the executive leadership of the deputy minister, it would not have happened.
My concern is whether, when those individuals rotate to other positions, that department will perform quite as well.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
In your statement at the press conference last Thursday, you identified a number of gaps, and you said that these gaps are clearly indicative of a lack of leadership at the highest levels of government. Can you tell us exactly what levels you meant when you talked about highest levels of government?
4:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Well, obviously, the highest levels of government are the cabinet itself and the deputy ministers who directly support their ministries. A signal from those levels becomes marching orders on the ground floor. I think if a similar statement were made in Canada, it would have a tremendous impact.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Marleau, I have a list of issues here, and I'd like to ask you if, in the time you've been Information Commissioner, you've seen any movement on any of them by the government.
Have you seen any move by the government to actually implement former commissioner Reid's recommendations, the draft bill that he put forward?
4:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
In fairness, the Federal Accountability Act did contain a series of initiatives that were supported by Commissioner Reid and my office. The scope of the statute was broadened, notwithstanding that certain other exemptions were added to it, which he felt, and I feel, were not necessary. They were already covered by the statute. The carve-outs given to some of the new institutions I don't feel were absolutely necessary.
So in that sense, the scope was broadened to crown corporations and my office, parliamentary officers, and foundations. So, yes, I have to say that was a positive step forward.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
4:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
Mr. Reid filed a special report for Parliament, complaining that it fell far short.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
As Information Commissioner, have you been given the power to order the release of information?
4:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
No, sir. We have an ombudsman model at the federal level. I have the power only to recommend.
I have extraordinary powers of investigation. I can see just about everything, excluding cabinet confidences. I can send for papers, and I can enter into premises. We don't use those powers because we usually get nothing but cooperation in terms of access.
At the end of the day, I can only file a letter under section 37 to a minister, recommending that this be done. If the ministry does not follow my recommendation, with the approval of the requester, I can go to the Federal Court, and the Federal Court can ultimately order that disclosure.
As commissioner, I'm first an ombudsman. I'm not a neutral ombudsman; I am biased towards disclosure. But I am trying to mediate and resolve.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Has the coverage of the act been extended to all crown corporations, officers of Parliament, foundations, and organizations that spend taxpayers' money or perform public functions?
4:05 p.m.
Information Commissioner, Office of the Information Commissioner of Canada
No, I think there are still.... If I use the Auditor General's term “follow the dollar”, there are still probably other institutions out there that could fall under the purview of the statute. In the recommendations I tabled today, I recommend that Parliament, the Library of Parliament, the Senate, and the House of Commons should also be covered by the statute.
