Evidence of meeting #12 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sparrow.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

I call the meeting to order.

This is meeting number 12 of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Pursuant to Standing Order 108(3)(h)(vi), this is our study on allegations of interference in access to information requests, and more specifically on the motion by Mr. Easter that the committee conduct a study regarding allegations of systemic political interference by ministers' offices to block, delay, or obstruct the release of information to the public regarding the operations of government departments, and that the committee call before it the witnesses we had announced earlier.

Appearing before us today is the Honourable Diane Finley, Minister of Human Resources and Skills Development. Welcome, Minister. We appreciate your taking the time to come and assist us with examining the order before us right now.

I understand you have an opening statement to make, and I invite you to make that now.

11:05 a.m.

Haldimand—Norfolk Ontario

Conservative

Diane Finley ConservativeMinister of Human Resources and Skills Development

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you for inviting me to appear before the committee.

I'd like to begin by giving you some context and background related to the advertising campaigns that have recently been run by my department.

Our government launched Canada's Economic Action Plan on January 23, 2009 to support Canadians through a world-wide economic crisis with a comprehensive series of measures and initiatives.

Mr. Chair, equally important as making these investments is making sure that Canadians are aware of them so that they can benefit. These ads play an important role in not only informing Canadians that benefits and programs exist, but they also inform Canadians where they can go to find more information, whether it is the website, the phone number or their local government office.

Canadians needed to be aware of and know how to access the investments the government is making. Accordingly, it was necessary to launch advertising campaigns to ensure that Canadian workers were aware of and were taking advantage of the various benefits and programs available to them. The advertising campaign highlighted several new and enhanced initiatives to support Canadian workers and their families during the global economic downturn.

Two advertising campaigns were conducted, one for apprentices and one for workers in general. The first program, the apprenticeship grants campaign, was developed to raise awareness of the $4,000 in grants available from the Government of Canada to encourage apprentices to undertake and complete their apprenticeships and become journeypersons in a skilled trade.

Research has shown that a significant number of apprentices do not complete their training. The $2,000 apprenticeship incentive grant is available to first- and second-year apprentices in specified trades and has been provided to over 140,000 Canadians since its launch in 2007. The apprenticeship completion grant, announced as part of Canada's economic action plan, provides an additional $2,000 to apprentices who complete their training and become journeypersons. In its first year alone it helped almost 20,000 Canadians.

This campaign targeted apprentices through radio and Internet advertising, as well as through ads placed in schools and in restaurants located near training centres. This campaign was launched on January 11, 2010, and was completed on March 7, 2010. The campaign was evaluated with the standard advertising campaign evaluation tool, otherwise known as ACET, which is a survey of the general population that collects information related to recall of the advertisement, recall of the key messages, and recall of who sponsored the ad, as well as to determine what, if any, action has been taken as a result of seeing the ad. ACET indicates that 37% of the target audience recalled seeing the ad, with fully one in five indicating that they were going to take action as a result of seeing the ad.

A budget of about $200,000 was established for planning and production. A media budget of approximately $1,650,000 was established for the campaign.

The Helping Canadian Workers campaign was designed to raise awareness of programs available to workers who had been adversely affected by the global economic downturn. The campaign was comprised of a national television and Internet component that included broad messaging about the support available to Canadian workers and where Canadians could go to get more information. The national element was supported by regional print and radio ads that carried more detailed information about specific programs related to skills and training, extended EI benefits and new EI benefits for the self-employed.

Examples of these include the extra five weeks of EI benefits provided, which have helped some 600,000 Canadians who are unemployed so far; our record investment in skills training and upgrading, which are helping Canadians get back to work and get ready for the jobs of tomorrow; as well as the expanded work-sharing program, which so far has protected the jobs of over 255,000 Canadians since February 2009.

The budget for production and campaign planning was about $1,225,000. The national television and Internet campaign was launched January 18 and concluded February 28. The national media buy included air time during the Olympics. The media budget for the national component of the campaign was approximately $4,950,000. The regional campaign was launched on February 8, 2010, and concluded on March 31, and included radio ads, print ads, and Internet ads in both official languages. The media budget for the regional component of the campaign was about $5,575,000.

Using the advertising campaign evaluation tool that I referred to earlier, the aided and unaided recall rate of the campaign among the general population was a whopping 61%, compared to the average Government of Canada benchmark of 36%. This figure rises to 65% among unemployed workers. Overall awareness of the economic action plan was 66% in March, compared to 57% in January.

The main message in these ads was that government help was available to the unemployed who have paid into government programs like EI. Clearly, Mr. Chair, these ads were a success.

All information concerning our advertising campaigns, including contracts, costs and evaluation, are made public once all final information is collected and available. Furthermore, the government publishes an annual report on all its advertising expenditures.

Mr. Chair, I'm aware a newspaper article based on an inquiry of the costs of these advertising campaigns came to the attention of my staff. Canadians want timely and accurate information regarding the expenditure of their taxpayer dollars. Given the fluid nature of ad buys, it's prudent to wait until an ad campaign is over and actual ad time has been finalized before releasing the costs. That's exactly what was done in this case. The information was released after the advertising campaign ended and more accurate information was available on actual airtime and costs.

I'd also like to point out that my office followed all the rules under the guidelines of the Government of Canada's communication policy. Under the policy, and I quote:

Institutions must consult their minister's office when planning media campaigns or strategies that could involve ministerial participation, or when preparing a response to a media enquiry that could have implications for the minister.

And I quote:

Ministers are the principal spokespersons for the Government of Canada. They are supported in this role by appointed aides, including executive assistants, communications directors and press secretaries in ministers' offices.

Our government was forthcoming in providing more accurate costs in a timely manner once the campaign was complete and final airtime was known.

Mr. Chair, as the objective assessment has indicated, this advertising campaign was very successful in raising awareness among Canadian workers of the programs our government is delivering to them in these tough economic times.

I would now be pleased to answer your questions.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Thank you very much, Minister.

Could you very succinctly describe the situation when the government gets a contract like this? Is it a fixed-price contract that you would enter, or is it wide open? Could it be way off your budget? Would you actually enter into an agreement like that?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Many things can happen when buying ad time, especially over a prolonged period, that could vary the amount of actual air time compared with what you budget or plan for. We all remember 9/11. Anybody who bought air time during those first three days didn't get what they had expected to get.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

So there are external circumstances, I guess—

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

That's an extreme case, but there are many circumstances in which the actual could vary from the budget or forecast.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Okay. I think I understand, now that you've told us what happens. That's great.

We'll hear Mr. Easter, please, and then Madame Thi Lac, Mr. Dewar, and Mr. Poilievre.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister.

We have certainly many questions on this issue, but I'm wondering about timing. Our expectation is that you will be here for the full hearing.

What is your timeframe?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I was asked to be here for an hour, and that's what I have planned.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I don't think an hour is going to cut it, Mr. Chair. I expect that ministers should be able to find two hours when—

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Minister, your chief of staff told us you were available for the two hours, and that Mr. Sparrow would be here with you but would not speak.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

My understanding was that I would be here for an hour. There was debate as to whether Mr. Sparrow would be here.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

Let's see how it goes. I think you'll appreciate it, as long as the questions are relevant.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Yes.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo

I know it's in your best interests as well to make sure that the questions are clarified.

Okay.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister.

Just to come back to the motion on what this hearing is all about, Minister, you talked extensively in your remarks about the Canada action plan and why the advertising is taking place. But this hearing is really about allegations of systemic political interference by ministers' offices to block, delay, or obstruct the release of information to the public regarding the operations of government departments. In this particular case, it's your department.

You mentioned that there was a media story that involved Ryan Sparrow, in which it was alleged that he blocked attempts by bureaucrats to reveal the price tag of the ads that were aimed to promote the Conservative budgetary measures. We will be hearing from Mr. Sparrow at a later date.

On the same day that information came out, you were questioned in the House, and you indicated that you would be looking at this example and taking it into consideration to see how you could improve on the process in the future.

Could you then tell us what you found and what action you've taken to improve the situation so that information is getting out as it should be to the public under the access to information and other means?

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

I think we have two different issues here. First of all, this was a media inquiry, Mr. Chair. This was not an ATIP request. I'd like to be very clear about the two issues.

Number one is that when I became aware of the situation, I explored what had happened, both through the department and through my own ministerial office staff. What we discovered was that everything was done according to the Government of Canada communications policies. I should point out that any time there is a media inquiry to the department, they communicate immediately with my staff to make sure they are aware of this. One key issue here was that there is a process to be followed in making sure we respond to media inquiries in a timely and accurate and responsible manner. That procedure was followed completely.

The one lesson, if any, that we learned through this was that we need to make sure our communications internally are perhaps more elaborate, if I might use that word, than they might otherwise be.

We believe it was very prudent to make sure that Canadians got accurate information. The question was what the actual costs of the Olympic ad campaign were. Frankly, the ad campaign was still running. We didn't know what the actual costs were, nor, when we booked the ad campaign—or rather, when Public Works and Government Services Canada booked it—was there a specified allocation for just the Olympics.

So the actual numbers didn't exist because the time period hadn't elapsed yet. That being said, it was prudent, as has been done in the past, to not release what could be misrepresentative numbers to the public. As soon as the campaign was over, we released much more accurate information to the reporter, inside of three weeks.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

You're saying that this was done according to government policy. This was a staffer who was involved. How often do your staffers involve themselves with routine media requests for information? This certainly seems to us to be pretty close to covering information. How often are your staffers really involved?

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

My office is notified of every single media request that comes in to our department.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

So all media requests are indeed flagged?

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

My office gets copies of all media requests, yes.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

How often does this involvement of staffers in what is really related, in this case, to an advertising campaign from government change the response from that which the bureaucracy would normally put out?

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

Our goal is to make sure that the response that goes out is accurate, that it's complete, and that Canadians get a true picture of what has gone on. Actually we interfere...or actually we get involved directly very rarely.

Let me just check some numbers here. In the last six months, out of 235 calls that were received, only 51 generated changes to the response. Those broke down into two categories. One was to make sure that there was a general messaging in there--for example, about the economic action plan--and where the response fit in that context. The other category was to clarify or elaborate on material or to remove material that was irrelevant. So it was in 22% where we made changes.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE

I think probably you had the right word, Minister; “interfere” is probably the appropriate word.

The question here that I think the public needs to know.... What we need is straight facts; we don't need political spin. So I'd ask you this as a final question in this round. Was Mr. Sparrow acting on instructions from you or from anyone else when he told bureaucrats to amend their responses and not release any figures?

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

Diane Finley Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON

What Mr. Sparrow was doing was being prudent. He was trying to make sure that Canadians got information from our department that was reasonable, realistic, and responsible. It would be irresponsible to be asked for actual data on an event that hadn't even occurred yet. What he was doing was the prudent thing. We hadn't been asked for estimates or forecasts or anything else; we had been asked for actuals. Those numbers did not exist, and his response was prudent and not out of the ordinary. As soon as actual numbers were available after the campaign had been completed, those were provided within three weeks, even though there was a longer time period available to us to release them.