Evidence of meeting #20 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:30 p.m.
Conservative
12:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
I had asked for the input of the committee as to whether or not this template, this approach, and this language, specifically the last two sentences, would be...whether the committee has consensus, or whatever.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Sure, with some small changes. If you give me a chance—
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Mr. Siksay, in his input to the last sentence about Mr. Togneri, said he'd like to change the word “if” to “though”, and it was accepted.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
We're just having some input on whether or not we're going in the right direction, and if the members don't like this approach and would like something else, then I would expect they would come forward with a recommendation.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I'll do exactly what you've just asked, come forward with a recommended change. I would also indicate that you might like it or you might not like it, but the committee is the master of its own domain, of course.
The changes I recommend are the following.
In the second-last sentence, delete the words “of privilege has occurred” and replace them with “of parliamentary tradition”. Then after the word “Committee”, delete the words “has reason to believe that a potential” and replace them with “finds itself in”.
I'll repeat that.
The second-last sentence currently reads:
In light of this matter, the Committee has reason to believe that a potential breach of privilege has occurred.
My proposed amendment is to delete the words “has reason to believe that a potential”; take that out and replace it with “finds itself in”. After the word “of”, delete the words “privilege has occurred” and replace them with “parliamentary tradition”.
So the sentence would now read—
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
Mr. Poilievre, just read the sentence that you want to replace this sentence with. That would be very helpful. Please.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Sorry. There is no reason to be impatient, Mr. Chair.
In light of this matter--
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Okay.
In light of this matter, the Committee finds itself in breach of parliamentary tradition.
The rationale behind this amendment, Mr. Chair—
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
This suggestion, this suggested amendment, is found on page 32, chapter 1, entitled “Parliamentary Institutions”, which reads:
In terms of ministerial responsibility, Ministers have both individual and collective responsibilities to Parliament. The individual or personal responsibility of the Minister derives from a time when in practice and not just in theory the Crown governed; Ministers merely advised the Sovereign and were responsible to the Sovereign for their advice. The principle of individual ministerial responsibility holds that Ministers are accountable not only for their own actions as department heads, but also for the actions of their subordinates; individual ministerial responsibility provides the basis for accountability throughout the system. Virtually all departmental activity is carried out in the name of a Minister who, in turn, is responsible to Parliament for those acts. Ministers exercise power and are constitutionally responsible for the provision and conduct of government; Parliament holds them personally responsible for it.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
—that by targeting these staff members, the committee is itself in violation and breach of parliamentary tradition.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I think it is now appropriate that the committee find so much and report it to the House of Commons.
12:35 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
I gather that you don't like the arguments I'm making, Mr. Chair, and that is unfortunate. I will continue to work to convince you.