Information & Ethics Committee on June 17th, 2010

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

It's an overall report, and just in answer to Mr. Siksay about proactive disclosure, I think this is very important. Again, you can check the record of the Department of Justice over the last few years. I think it will confirm what I'm saying, which is that we make every effort to get information out to the public, because people who have an interest in this, people who want to know, people who have a right to know certain types of information, ought to be able to access that.

So you try to make it a little bit easier for people to do that and that's why I say that I was very pleased by and supportive of the changes under the Federal Accountability Act. Just one of the changes was increasing the number of investigators from four to eight that the Information Commissioner may use for investigations concerning sensitive material related to the defence of Canada or national security.

Again, it's giving more resources to the commissioner, and it's expanding the number of areas, getting it to all crown corporations, their subsidiaries, agents and officers of Parliament, and foundations. These are steps in the right direction in terms of getting people the opportunity to find out what's going on and to find out where and how their taxpayer dollars are being spent--and indeed, other issues that are important to people.

So yes, it's in the public interest, and you and I have been part of a political movement that has always agreed with that. And certainly I agree, and each minister within his or her department, should make every effort.... I can tell you that the Department of Justice has received an A in the last two years, and there's one prediction I made: I said that nobody will ever ask me about that.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I said that it's the one thing I would never be asked about. But that said, it's not just a question of the mark you can get. You might get a D in the sense that you may be overwhelmed with requests or they may be very complex, so it's very difficult. But again, we all have that responsibility and we do our very best.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

So why don't you tell me about the A that you received in the Department of Justice?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I wasn't going to say. It's like being back at law school again.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I mean, somebody may access those records at some point in time. They may be released.

But again, each department has its own responsibility in terms of working as expeditiously as possible, and since you've mentioned it and asked the question, this is the second A in a row--

[Randy Hoback, Conservative, Prince Albert, SK]

The second A.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Way to go.

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

--for the Department of Justice.

Thank you very much. I think I see a nod of approval from the Liberals, but again, even if we received a B or a C, the direction that I give to the department and to everybody is that we do our best. This doesn't mean that next year we couldn't be overwhelmed with requests, and they may be very complex, and we may need extensions, and therefore I may get a grade that's less than that, or the department may get that, but again, I appreciate all the work that is done, certainly in my own department, and indeed in all of the departments.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

One and a half minutes.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Also, in your opening remarks, Minister, you said that you would encourage our committee to consult widely and do a full study. Can you just give us some idea of what you would like to see this committee do in terms of consulting widely?

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

If you made it known that you were prepared to hear testimony on this, I think you would get a wide range of individuals and groups that would want to come forward and make their case one way or the other.

As Mr. Siksay pointed out, I've had a look at this whole issue, I think about 20 years ago, and again, you get some good insight into the different issues. I think it could be very helpful and very instructive for the committee, and indeed for those of us who work on these issues.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Would you be willing to provide us with some suggestions of individuals or organizations that we might want to--

[Rob Nicholson, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

I would be glad to take that up with you, Ms. Block, and again, I really appreciate and thank you for all your interest in this. I have to tell you that you've been very supportive of everything we have done, I know, in the criminal justice area. I've mentioned to you before how appreciative I am of that. So yes, any way I can be of help to you or the committee in that regard, I would be pleased to do so.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you, Mrs. Block.

Mr. Easter, you have five minutes.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister. Congratulations to your department on the mark of A. It gives you a double A. Randy and I both have been in the beef business: a Triple A is what you really need to get there. Triple A is very good beef.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

But, Mr. Minister, the government as a whole is an entirely different story.

I want to go back to the beginning, because when you started off, you talked at some length about the important work of this committee. You even mentioned the Federal Accountability Act. However, what we've seen in practice, I think, is a Prime Minister and a government that basically, regardless of what the Federal Accountability Act says, have subverted the ability of parliamentarians like ourselves, both in the House and at committee, to do our jobs.

You're aware of the issue of the three witnesses: Mr. Togneri, who is still under summons; Ms. Jillian Andrews, whom the bailiff couldn't find to issue a summons; and Mr. Soudas, who appears in TV pretty nearly every second or third night, to whom the bailiff couldn't issue a summons either. They're not appearing before committee.

I want to just put on the record, Mr. Chair, some of the scenario behind this. The clerk got a letter on June 1 from the Prime Minister, in which he said, “The purpose of this letter is to inform the Committee of my instruction to Mr. Soudas that he will not appear before the Committee”. He said in the letter:

Next week I will be present in Question Period on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Questions about these matters can be directed to me there.

Ms. Foote asked a question to the Prime Minister in question period. He didn't answer, so he didn't keep his word in that regard--that he would answer questions.

So the Prime Minister is not answering questions on Mr. Soudas from members of this committee, and Mr. Soudas is not appearing before the committee. Then we had the law clerk before the committee, Mr. Rob Walsh, and this is what he had to say--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Mr. Easter, you're already halfway through your time slot. I wonder if I can go quickly to the minister, and we'll just see whether you're going to have any more time left.

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

No, Mr. Chair. I need to finish my question. It is my time and I want to finish my question. It will just take me about 30 seconds more, because--

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Okay. Well, you're already over half of your time and—

[Wayne Easter, Liberal, Malpeque, PE]

I want to lay out the facts to the minister.