Evidence of meeting #26 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbyists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
No, you have five seconds left.
That concludes the first round, colleagues. We're going to go to the second round of seven minutes.
Ms. Bennett.
Before you start, I plan to go to about 5:20, and then we'll deal with Mr. Easter's motion.
October 21st, 2010 / 4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Thank you.
Commissioner, with regard to the change in the regulations, September 20, were you consulted before those regulations were brought in?
4:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
As it so happens, one of the ministers in the most lobbied departments was Minister Day. In my meeting with him during the outreach activities—it was just after the House had passed the motion to include parliamentary secretaries, and the government had indicated it would be including all members of Parliament...and senators, I believe--I took the opportunity to indicate that if it was simply an expansion of the definition, my system could accommodate it.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
4:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
No more than what was discussed in the House.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Were you having trouble doing your investigations before this regulation change?
4:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Well, the regulation changes only serve to make members of Parliament designated public office holders. As I've indicated, I've not had any problems in terms of doing any investigations.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
So if you hadn't before had any problems having members of Parliament confirm an investigation, or--
4:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I've not had any problems with administering the act.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
So somehow the changes came out of the blue, without any real problem having been identified by you.
4:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The problem was not identified by me, no.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
Okay.
In the annual report it says there were almost 28,000 transactions and that you've sent 87 letters to public office holders to verify the accuracy of 429 communication entries. Is that a normal percentage of the transactions? Is this a spot check, or are these the ones that look a little odd?
4:55 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Well, first of all, in terms of the number of transactions, that includes all transactions occurring within the system in terms of updates to registrations, communication entries. With the 87 letters, or the percentage, it's roughly 5% of communication entries that we verify; the average per month is about 625. What I'm getting at, I guess, is that they are two different numbers.
The transactions are everything that's happening in the system: updates, registrations, communication entries.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
On those 429 communication entries, there must be lots more than that. How many are there, and what percentage have you had to verify the accuracy?
5 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Could I ask what specific page you're referring to?
There are roughly 625 communication entries per month of meetings with designated public office holders. I think, on page 5, it shows where there has been a couple of periods of spikes, but on average it's roughly 625 communication entries per month.
5 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes, mostly over-reporting.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Carolyn Bennett Liberal St. Paul's, ON
But that's 14%. Even if it's technical, it means that people don't understand it very well. I mean, 14% seems very high in terms of errors.
5 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
What I found is that there's been over-reporting, for example, in reporting meetings with individuals who are not designated public office holders.
In doing the verification, we actually did a couple of mass e-mails to lobbyists to inform them of the errors and of what actually constitutes a designated public office holder. But what I'm finding....
5 p.m.
Liberal
5 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
That's what we're doing. The outreach is for explaining that to individuals. But I'm also finding, from some lobbyists, when they recount stories, that they would rather over-report, which does not constitute a breach of the act, than maybe err on the side of not reporting and be found to be in breach.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Shawn Murphy
Thank you very much, Ms. Bennett.
We'll go to Ms. Davidson for five minutes.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Commissioner, thank you very much for being here with us again today. Certainly I think there's a fair amount of confusion, as you've gathered as we've asked questions around the table.
Is this document that was handed out to us part of an education document?
5 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Yes. That deck is a smaller version of some of the other decks you will see on the website. The site's tailored a little bit more for members of the committee in terms of what I thought would be pertinent information. But yes, I would consider that an educational tool.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Okay.
Is there any plan to do any type of education process with the new designated people?