Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 28th, 2011

[Daniel J. Caron]

I would actually like to add that we are aware and we are working closely with Ms. Charette. But our contribution is limited. We have data, but she has to work with every department because we don’t have the data from all the departments.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

I just wanted to know what your relation was with Ms. Charette, whether you were working closely with her and how.

[Daniel J. Caron]

We contribute with some data.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Have you received specific instructions from the Treasury Board Secretariat on releasing information?

[Daniel J. Caron]

No.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

That’s what I would like to know because it is the Treasury Board Secretariat that oversees the disclosure of information across the government.

I don’t want to get into the details of documentation or archives. What I want to know is whether you have received specific instructions from those in charge of releasing information, meaning the people from the Treasury Board Secretariat, to implement the regulations across all departments.

Do you know anything about that?

[Daniel J. Caron]

No, not in terms of the portal, not to my knowledge.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

And you?

[Mark Perlman]

I don't know.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you. You did a good job answering my question. You are not aware of any directives or a comprehensive policy from the Treasury Board Secretariat.

Mrs. Mercier, thank you for your testimony. You said that it was especially the young people who were calling loudly and clearly for access since they want to know more about what is going on, and we should give them credit for that. You also said that public data belongs to the public, not to public organizations. I really liked that.

But, somewhere in your presentation, you pointed out that there was a trap in terms of information and data processing. Could you tell us a bit about that, but not too much since I have two other questions for your colleagues?

[Diane Mercier]

The trap is in the pervasiveness of technology in accessing information. At the moment, as Mr. Caron said, information is no longer printed, it is diffuse and intangible. As a result, we tend to think that it is a technology issue. So then we deal with the people working in technological systems and computers because we think it is about machines and software.

But information also has to do with organization, the creation of information, and dissemination. It has a lot more to do with people from other disciplines and with information professionals.

In our organizations, and I’m thinking of municipalities, we have very few information professionals. We have a lot of computer experts, some archivists to take care of historical and archival documents, but that’s all. Staff members are not trained to manage their information.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you, Mrs. Mercier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Shawn Murphy]

Madame Freeman, you're out of time. Merci, Madame Freeman.

Mr. Siksay, you have seven minutes.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for your very helpful testimony this afternoon.

Monsieur Caron, I wanted to ask you a couple of questions.

At the end of your presentation you mentioned some initiatives you've been undertaking that you think are related to open government. The third one was around the record-keeping initiative. Is that something that we might, in other places, hear around the “duty to document”? Is it linked to that concept?

[Daniel J. Caron]

I would say it is linked to that concept. It is in fact a way to ensure that the proper documentation is being created so that we can track it and ingest it at Library and Archives Canada for long-term use.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

In your assessment, does Canada need better legal requirements around the duty to document and around basic record-keeping, given the change in technology that we've seen, in that a lot of these records may disappear or be erased?

[Daniel J. Caron]

Mr. Chairman, my personal view is that it's a cultural thing, so it will come with generations. It will come with people being able to behave in a way that is totally different from what we're used to. The record-keeping directive is quite a good administrative document, and we are training people. We're socializing the directive and developing methodologies, so I think that over time we're going to see that happen.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Is it a voluntary initiative? Are you looking for a cultural change in government?

[Daniel J. Caron]

When I started this thing in 2005, the idea was to replicate what we have in Finance to some extent. It's something you can control to some extent. You can have a legal requirement at some point. If someone decides to go around the rules, so be it.

I think that in terms of progress in Canada, we have been able to develop this structure and methodology that will support departments and people to better manage their information.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Is there a document related to that, something you could share with the committee?

[Daniel J. Caron]

Well, there's the directive, yes. Absolutely.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

That would be great. Thank you.

You also mentioned the initiative of the partnership with Ancestry.ca. One of the things we keep hearing about is the importance of having government information available free of charge. I think Ancestry.ca charges people. You have to sign in, and when I poked around on it, I think that's what was required. Have you considered that aspect of your partnership with Ancestry.ca?

[Daniel J. Caron]

Yes; in fact, if you come to our office, it's going to be free of charge. If you go to Ancestry.ca for some time, you're going to have to pay. It's mixed....

Maybe Jean-Stéphen can help me on the details, but to make this thing largely available to the public, if you come to us, as you would have to if you don't use Ancestry.ca, it's free. However, if you do it from your own computer....

[Jean-Stéphen Piché, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Acquisitions Sector , Library and Archives Canada]

In fact, the information that was digitized by Ancestry.ca has a fee when it's with the Ancestry.ca website, but on our website it's free. The information will be released for free. We have already undertaken the digitization of several million documents that were done by Ancestry.ca; that information is available on our website for free, and also available for a fee on the Ancestry.ca site. It's a non-exclusive arrangement.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Is it the same information, or does Ancestry.ca provide something different from what you would provide?