Information & Ethics Committee on April 20th, 2010

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you for being here again, Commissioner, and congratulations to Monsieur Leblanc on his appointment as deputy commissioner.

Commissioner, in your report this morning you mentioned that last year your office verified nearly 300 individuals, corporations, and organizations after you noticed that they were engaging in lobbying activity.

What happened to the other 10%? I guess you found out that 30 of those individuals weren't properly registered. What do you do when you discover that? What happens in those cases?

[Karen Shepherd]

One of the compliance measures we have in place is what we call media monitoring. If we see something in the media, we do a further analysis and determine whether these individuals may need to be registered. As I said, for instance, in the case in which we found roughly 300, 90% of them were registered. We determined upon further analysis—because we just don't go with what we see, there's a lot more work—that the individuals were either volunteers and, as the Lobbying Act requires, don't need to register, or the lobbying was actually taking place in the provincial or municipal sphere. For the remaining ones, we send what we call the advisory letter to the organizations to let them know that there is a Lobbying Act. It's one of the compliance education tools: asking them whether they are aware of the Lobbying Act and saying here is what the Lobbying Act entails and that they may need to register.

Last year, we sent out twelve letters. Nine of them came back indicating, after reviewing the act, that they did not hit the significant amount of duties, so they did not need to register, and three of the individuals actually registered.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

By provincial and municipal, do you mean they were representatives of provincial or municipal governments, or elected officials?

[Karen Shepherd]

No. I don't have any cases in front of me, but it's one of those cases, when you're looking at the articles talking about lobbying, in which on further analysis they weren't lobbying the federal government but were lobbying the province or the municipality.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you.

You also mentioned that the number of registered lobbyists is stable at around 3,500. I seem to remember in the past a number of 7,500 or 7,000 in a yearly report. Is that the change we're talking about?

[Karen Shepherd]

That may be from the departmental performance report, which talks about the number of transactions.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Okay, so I'm confusing transactions and the number of lobbyists.

Have you done any further analysis of why the number has gone down? You mentioned that you think it might be related to a rationalization of activity among lobbying organizations, but have you done any further analysis of it?

[Karen Shepherd]

We haven't in terms of actually going....

One of the things we've talked about is that as we're getting rid of the backlog, and now that the staff is free, we can do some analysis; we can actually call some of the organizations that have chosen not to register to figure out if it's because they are no longer involved in lobbying activities. We haven't done that yet, but it is something we're looking at doing.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Are you at all concerned that it might reflect organizations hiding under the 20% rule, that they've reduced or spread around the lobbying efforts among different people who spend less than 20% of their time on lobbying activities?

[Karen Shepherd]

You're saying “spread it around”. The one thing that's different with an organization versus a corporation for in-house lobbyists is that anyone who's communicating in an in-house organization, if they're paid, does not have to.... All of that cumulatively is added together, so it's not a matter of spreading it around, whereas with corporations you have the two lists, those who may be communicating for lesser amounts of their time versus those who are hitting the 20% rule.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

Thank you. You mentioned in your report this morning that you plan to establish a more rigorous monitoring practice to ensure performance standards. Can you tell us what kinds of things you're considering?

[Karen Shepherd]

One of the things we're looking at is once a lobbyist files, there are about seven steps for consultants and corporations from the filing of the registration until it hits the system. The performance indicators will allow us to figure out where in those steps we need to focus more of our efforts to see if we can improve process or if there needs to be more education, depending on what's happening in each of those steps.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

You're not talking about a new step or anything like that, that you think is missing in the process?

[Karen Shepherd]

No, this is allowing us to get better at capturing information we have and trying to put things in place.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

You also mentioned this morning that you have granted only three exemptions. Can you tell us how many applications for exemptions you have received?

[Karen Shepherd]

Since July 2008 I have received 12, and one just came in recently.

[Bill Siksay, NDP, Burnaby—Douglas, BC]

You mentioned that the review of the act is coming up and you're starting to prepare for that. Can you tell us what sorts of things you do in your preparation for that, and will you be coming out with specific recommendations for changes in the legislation?

[Karen Shepherd]

There has been a lot of experience in terms of the registration side. Comparing what we've experienced since 2005 to when the act came in, in 2008, one big difference was not having that two-month transition period, because when you put in new disclosure requirements and all the lobbyists had to file, that was a significant backlog. At the time it was more than 4,000 lobbyists to go through. So when you're getting all the new ones coming in, plus you've got those who have to update their registration.... That would be one thing.

Another experience is in terms of what we needed to do with the system on the education front. I was looking at my big categories: the experience with designated public office holders, how many exemptions, what types, if I'd granted them, and so on; and the experience on the compliance side, because when the Lobbying Act came into force in 2008 it gave clear ability to look at both the act and the code. So it would be looking at the big areas and trying to have the necessary information and stats so I can better answer the committee's questions as we're going through deliberations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Paul Szabo]

Thank you.

Mrs. Block, please.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I echo my colleagues' welcome to you here today. Congratulations, Mr. Leblanc.

It certainly is a pleasure to have you at the committee. As a fairly new parliamentarian, I think it's important to note it was this government's first bill after being elected that made key improvements to this office since it came into force in July 2008. To put it in context, as an independent commissioner of lobbying, your mandate is to investigate violations under the new Lobbying Act and lobbyists' code of conduct, and that now includes over a million dollars for investigations that would not have been possible under the previous Liberal government.

With respect to the estimates, this process allows us to monitor the expenditures of government departments, agencies, and offices of Parliament, and in reviewing them, I notice your projected spending chart on page 9 of the RPP shows the office resource requirements as fairly stable over the next three fiscal years. Can you anticipate anything that might change this projection? How do you project out that far?

[Karen Shepherd]

As I was saying when I was asked the previous question on the budget and whether I have enough resources, if one or more of my decisions became judicially reviewable, that could have an impact, depending on changes that may come up. When the act comes up for review, if there are to be changes in a new act, that could also affect my ability to request funds.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

This is the first year the main estimates of this office have come before the House of Commons Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Last year the estimates went before the Standing Committee on Government Operations—

[Karen Shepherd]

Sorry, can I just make one correction when you're looking at page 9? I was just referring to my budget, but that is the appropriation we have been given to work with.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you.

So this is the first year you're presenting your main estimates here. Last year the estimate went before the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

I think this is timely, considering that you deal with allegations of non-registration or misconduct by lobbyists and that you conduct formal investigations when required to do so. How do you ensure that you stay independent from government?

[Karen Shepherd]

By doing the job I am doing. Both Houses of Parliament entrusted me with me the integrity of the act and ensuring that lobbying was done in a transparent manner and that those who were communicating were doing so with high ethical standards. I take that seriously.

As I was indicating, there has been no political interference. When there are allegations of unregistered lobbying, I take these seriously, no matter....