Evidence of meeting #8 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was lobbyists.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Well, as I said, in terms of media monitoring, we're looking to see whether there are references to lobbying, and we do further analysis.
In terms of my administrative reviews, we have 47 active files right now, and I think roughly 25% to 26% we've initiated if I've felt that there was a reason to look into something.
12:35 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
Okay.
What are the penalties for lobbyists not registering when they lobby a designated public office holder?
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If a lobbyist is unregistered, under the act it would be referred to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for investigation. If they lay charges because a person is found to be in breach of the act, the fines are listed in the act. I think it's $50 to a $100 for a summary conviction and up to six months in jail.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
Wayne Easter Liberal Malpeque, PE
The last question, Mr. Chair, comes back to this confusion--I think it's confusion--about parliamentary secretaries not being placed properly within the act. There is a major role for parliamentary secretaries, and ministers put a lot of confidence in them. They have a lot of access to people within the department. Yet if they're lobbied, they do not have to report, as a low-level bureaucrat in a regional development agency has to. It doesn't have to be reported.
Somebody doing projects at ACOA in, say, the Charlottetown office on Prince Edward Island, would have to report it, but not a parliamentary secretary who has daily access to the minister and the deputy and the ADM. Is that not correct, or am I lost here, Bruce?
Pierre thinks I am.
12:40 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I don't know about the exact organizational structure of ACOA, but in that office in Charlottetown, I'm not sure there's an assistant deputy minister in charge.
12:40 p.m.
Senior Counsel, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
In all likelihood, perhaps that isn't an ADM. So that person would be a designated public office holder with the attendant responsibility to file a monthly communication report—but that person alone; you're correct. Other people in an office like that, or in any government office, would not be designated public office holders. It doesn't mean there wouldn't be a need to register for lobbying activities, if you're communicating with them, but there would not be that need to file the monthly communication report.
12:40 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I have two questions. The first one is for Ms. Shepherd, and the second for Mr. Leblanc.
Ms. Shepherd, on the last page of your opening remarks, you say, and I quote: “This year, my office will implement a more rigorous case management system to make it easier for the investigation team to track progress on a growing caseload.”
There are two key elements in that sentence. When you talk about implementing “a more rigorous case management system”, does that mean that your current case management system needs improvement to fix flaws in the system?
When you say “a growing caseload”, does that mean you have a tremendous amount of cases? You have done a great deal of verification, 300 people and 400 reports. I told you from the outset that there was a great deal of work. Is there that much verification and case management? Are they constantly on the rise?
12:40 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
In response to your first question, my team and I are very proud to have a director of investigations who takes his responsibilities seriously. He has been acting in that position since the act came into force in 2008. He set up a case management system that allows us to identify files by type, see how many are the subject of administrative reviews or investigations and allocate staff appropriately.
We want a more rigorous case management system simply because we have to deal with applications for exemption under the new legislation. We receive a number of complaints. Furthermore, there are no weaknesses in our system because it is working and because all of our files are moving forward. The world has become increasingly electronic. And we have put an electronic system in place so that our staff knows which stage in the game a file is at. With paper, you have to locate the document, but with an electronic system, everything is right there, and it is easier to see a file's status. This makes it easier to see where things stand.
We worked on the procedure for two years. One of my investigators agreed to serve as acting director. We did our work with four investigators because we did not have all five doing the job. I would say we have more experience with the legislation now, we know more. A number of factors come into play, but the idea is to reduce the number of cases.
12:45 p.m.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Thank you very much.
My next question is for Mr. Leblanc.
We touched on strategic planning earlier, but we did not have time to delve deeper. You said that strategic planning had been undertaken because you had a report on plans and priorities. I think that is what you meant. If so, I agree with you. However, is that the new strategic planning that the commissioner referred to in her opening remarks? She seemed to say that many measures would be adopted in the months and years ahead. I assume she was referring to the new strategic planning that you are going to work with.
In addition, could you submit that here, to the committee?
12:45 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
The strategic planning....
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Paul Szabo
My stop signal is for the questioner, to allow you to answer. Their time is up, but your time is not up.
12:45 p.m.
Deputy Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
Thank you.
First of all, strategic planning is an annual exercise. It is undertaken year-round, not just at a specific point in time. Of course, at the beginning of the year or in planning for it, we arrange a certain number of meetings in order to set priorities and allocate resources appropriately.
The report on plans and priorities is, to a certain extent, the outcome of this strategic planning exercise. Strategic planning goes beyond that, of course. You are absolutely right. It will soon give rise to what we call an integrated business plan. It is more of an operational plan that allows us to determine our agenda and allocate resources in more detail.
If you are asking me to submit a business plan today, I cannot because we do not have one right now. But we are working on it.
12:45 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Thank you, Chair.
Commissioner, has anyone been penalized, fined, or prohibited from lobbying since the Lobbying Act came into force?
12:45 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
There have been no fines or jail terms. We had one case that was referred from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police to the prosecutor's office. That's one of the things: we have our test, but in terms of being successful in court, they also look at the intent and the success of prosecution. In that one file, it was an alternate dispute mechanism that the prosecutor's office went with.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Do you need some kind of administrative penalty to make this act effective, or is the current penalty system appropriate, in your experience?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
I have to be honest; it's one of the things.... I've heard this discussion before. When the act comes up for debate, it would probably be worth exploring. Right now, an infraction of the act is a criminal infraction, or its referral to the five.... There isn't anything about someone being late in filing, or on some other issues, at this point.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Is there any way by which, if someone were penalized under the Lobbying Act, that fact somehow wouldn't become public, or that information would be withheld and their violation of the act would somehow remain secret? Do you have any options that way, or would it always be public?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
If there were criminal charges laid, I believe that information would become public through the courts, yes.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
In terms of post-employment requirements, should MPs and senators and their staff be brought under the Lobbying Act in some way, in terms of their employment as a lobbyist after their term as an MP or senator is up?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
My understanding of the Lobbying Act is that the designated public office holder was brought in to capture the communications of these decision-makers with lobbyists. Also, the prohibition faced the issue of the revolving door and whether the individuals could not use any advantages or contacts they had made in performing that particular function as a designated public office holder. The question in terms of debate in Parliament is whether the prohibition should be expanded from what it was introduced for.
12:50 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Do you think it should be extended to party leaders, committee chairs, caucus chairs, folks like that—people who have specific responsibilities within Parliament?
12:50 p.m.
Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying
This is a specific view of.... I respect the debates that have gone on in Parliament, and I look forward to.... As I said, I'm gathering information on the exemptions and will be pleased to participate in the debate when it comes up.