Evidence of meeting #9 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was code.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Surely a minister can't do something as an MP that they can't do as a minister.
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Can't do something as an MP that they can't do as a minister? I think it's two different spheres.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
You think there is some way that a minister can separate out their job as an MP from the fact that they are a member of cabinet, from the fact that they have all those extra responsibilities and privileges, and access to decision-making they would have as a minister? Do you think they should be able to separate that out from the fact that they're also a member of Parliament?
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
There has to be some distinction, I think. Again, everything is in the particular case. It's a recent matter that's come up that you're alluding to, but this is a question that comes up occasionally. It's not an easy question.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Bill Siksay NDP Burnaby—Douglas, BC
You don't think that's too narrow a definition, or too narrow an approach to looking at conflict of interest, that somehow a minister is able to separate out those two roles and act differently in different cases?
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
It depends on the circumstances. If a minister were doing some constituency work that had nothing to do with their ministerial role, it's within the realm of possibilities, it seems to me, that if they were doing some offence under the code, it's possible that the act ought not to apply to them, if it has nothing to do with their ministerial role. But each case has to be looked at to see what it is you're talking about. You can't talk in generalities.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
If someone gives you a referral, and that referral points to a potential infraction, what is your next step?
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
The next step would be to take any information I had in that referral and follow it up.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
With the subject of that referral, the public office holder who was named in it?
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Not necessarily. Before I approached the public office holder, I might see if there was any information that formed the basis of whatever the referral contained.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
If there was, then I'd immediately get to the public office holder, if I thought it amounted to reasonable grounds.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
Would you give that office holder 30 days to respond?
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Under the code.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
Under the act, the examination would be initiated once the request had come in, in writing, as a formal request, and there were reasonable grounds that underpinned that.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
So as soon as you have reasonable grounds under the act, you begin an examination.
12:05 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
As long as the request comes in the formally appropriate way, which is in writing, signed, and that sort of thing, and it's a request....
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
12:10 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
I can self-initiate as well.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
All right, if you had information from a referral, regardless of the form in which it came, you could self-initiate an examination.
12:10 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
If I had enough information to give me reasonable grounds.
12:10 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Nepean—Carleton, ON
If any member of the House of Commons were to submit a referral to you, and that referral gave you reasonable grounds for an examination, under the act you would proceed with such an examination.
12:10 p.m.
Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner
If I had reasonable grounds, I would self-initiate, yes.
It's not only a member sending information, it could be anybody sending it--in a brown envelope, it could be the press, it could be from anywhere. I mean, if we have reason to think there's something going on that ought to be looked into, we'll look into it.
