Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 27th, 2011

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

I ask members to deal with the motion at hand, and if other members wish to get on the speakers' list, please signify to the clerk that you want to be on the list.

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I certainly would never imply motive. I said it pretty much straight up and I meant it. I have watched some of these members over here day after day on a crusade against CBC.

The issue of accountability is important for our committee. This is fundamental to our work. The fact of access to information is fundamental to our work. When I see people sitting around making jokes about resembling the remarks about dismantling the CBC, and then expecting to use this committee as a forum for them to examine documents, unredacted documents, so that they can then decide...or--and I think this would be more interesting--put themselves in a position where CBC would probably say, “We're not going to make that request because of the issues of journalistic integrity and because of the issues of the exclusion”, which would then allow the Conservatives to do what they would really like, which is to come in and call CBC in contempt of Parliament.

I think this is part of a definitive strategy to undermine the CBC. We've seen it again and again and again. We have enough evidence here for Mr. Del Mastro's kangaroo court to continue. He was unable to bring a judge before this committee; he thought he had the right to bring a judge before this committee, and yet we had to see the Ottawa Citizen have a big headline to remind Mr. Del Mastro that he was completely usurping the rules, the distinction between state, court, and parliamentary committee.

So now we see that Mr. Del Mastro gets to be the decider of what documents should be released and what shouldn't be released. This is a kangaroo court. The rest of us are dragged along for the ride because this government's idea of a majority is to break whatever rules it wants. But I think it is extremely inappropriate. It's showing the level of farce that this government is willing to descend to in its attack on the CBC.

I would respectfully say that we could have a situation where we review the testimony. We know what the conclusions of this government, as we know it, are going to be. But given the fact that the members have sat there and made jokes and continual attacks on the public broadcaster, for them to be given the documents to examine, to make political hay with, is completely out of line.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

You know, it's not unlike my colleague to grandstand, allege motive, and impugn the actions of other members. I think it's highly inappropriate and incredibly unproductive. It's unfortunate that he descends to that level of debate consistently at this committee and in Parliament.

It's incredibly important, given the testimony we've heard from many, including opposition witnesses before this committee. I'd point out that both witnesses today were not on our witness list, but we agreed to hear all witnesses. We wanted to hear from all sides on this matter. We heard concerns raised by witnesses today in this regard.

Mr. Angus is talking about witnessing people smiling or perhaps laughing on this side of the committee. He has no idea what we were talking about and what was going on at that time. I've seen Mr. Angus smile and nod and laugh at points in committee before.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Excuse me, Mr. Del Mastro.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

A point of order.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I have no idea what his emotional response was on--

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Del Mastro, I have a point of order.

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Just to clarify the record, I never said they were smiling at each other; I said they were making deliberate jokes about dismantling the CBC. I said it. I watched it. It's on the record.

Thank you.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

That's not on the record.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Gentlemen, hold it.

To Mr. Del Mastro and both sides, focus your debate on the motion before us. I believe we don't have a record of whatever that side conversation may or may not have been, so please only refer to testimony that the committee has access to.

Mr. Del Mastro, please continue.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you.

As I was saying, I think the motion is important and appropriate. If this committee is going to make any recommendations, it must have the facts. It can't make recommendations without the facts.

On the balance of Mr. Angus's buffoonery, I think it's highly—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Del Mastro, that is very unparliamentary. If you want to make ignorant comments, it's not within the...“buffoonery” is not parliamentary. I'd ask you to--

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

I'm going to interrupt here just for one moment.

You need to address your remarks through the chair. I suggest that both parties engaged in this conversation limit your comments to the motion before us, rather than the personal descriptions that are currently being used on both sides.

Mr. Del Mastro, please continue.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

As I said, the motion is highly appropriate. I think some of the conversation aside from the motion has been regrettable. I'd like to move to vote on the motion.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

I don't believe you can actually do that. Let me confer with the clerk.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I'm just requesting that we vote.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Thank you.

I'll test the will of the committee. Are you ready to move to a vote? I still have a speakers' list. I've got Mr. Butt and Mr. Andrews.

Do people want to continue to speak?

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Butt.

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

I'll be supporting the motion.

As a member of this committee, I would find it very helpful to be able to see the requests for information—what was filed, what was supplied back, what was withheld, etc.—so I can get a better idea of section 68.1, the provisions in that aspect of the act, and so on. When we make recommendations as a committee when our study is complete, as one member of this committee I will then have a full appreciation of the important work we've done in the study.

Just for the record, I have never publicly or privately mused about the funding the CBC gets from the federal government--never once. I've never campaigned on defunding the CBC. In fact, I campaigned on maintaining support for the CBC.

So those are the facts. Mr. Angus can twist his facts any way he wants and make any statement he wants here—

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Butt, I've asked—

[Brad Butt, Conservative, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

--but it is absolutely incorrect.