Information & Ethics Committee on Dec. 1st, 2011

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

The business at hand today is to deal with the witness list on the statutory review of the Lobbying Act.

As a point of information, we had agreed we would try to get the privacy commissioner in next week to deal with the report, and then the lobbying commissioner, and neither is available next week.

I have spoken to Mr. Boulerice and Mr. Del Mastro, and Mr. Del Mastro felt we should hold off on scheduling anybody for next week until we had the meeting today. His preference on the Lobbying Act is that we hear from the lobbying commissioner first, to set the framework for the lobbying study. At this point she's scheduled for Tuesday, December 13. We can make a decision today about what we want to do next week.

I believe the clerk has circulated the list of witnesses that had been proposed.

[A voice]

In the last Parliament.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Sorry, in the last Parliament.

And you have not received any others.

These are the witnesses who were proposed in the last Parliament for the study that commenced in March. In my view, we need to decide on the witness list today, the length of the study, and provide some direction to the analysts and the clerk around scheduling.

I'm at your mercy.

Ms. Davidson.

[Patricia Davidson, Conservative, Sarnia—Lambton, ON]

Do you have another list of those witnesses? I don't seem to have one.

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

To reconfirm, this was the list that was submitted in March, in the last Parliament, when the study was commenced. We haven't received any other names since Tuesday.

Monsieur Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Is it possible to add names to the list at this time?

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

At this point there is no list. To be clear, the list you've got before you is the list of witnesses from the previous study. We have received no names for the current study. This was a bit of guidance for you about who had been requested to appear before the committee when the study was commenced back in March.

This is just for your reference, and we are now looking for names you would like to see called as witnesses.

Monsieur Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

We have 10 names to add to the list. Should I list them off right now one by one?

They are not all new names. Some are the same.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Since we didn't actually receive a list of witnesses today, it's going to be difficult to make a final decision.

What I would propose is that you need to make a decision as a committee about how you're going to approach this study and then talk about who the witnesses might be. We could then have the list of witnesses submitted and meet on Tuesday to finalize the list.

Just as a point of information, I understand this committee does not operate with a subcommittee to look at developing the agenda. Is that correct?

[A voice]

That's right.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Okay.

Monsieur Dusseault, I think we need to talk about whether you want to proceed as the study was the last time around or you want to proceed in a different fashion. It was a broad umbrella study—you know, a 30,000-foot study—rather than getting into individual lobby groups and what not.

I think that's what you need to decide before we talk about the witnesses that were proposed.

As the clerk points out, it's also helpful to determine how many meetings you want to spend on the study, because that helps to shape how many witnesses you want to call.

Mr. Del Mastro.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

With respect to witnesses, we're not prepared to submit our formal witness list at this point. We do have some witnesses in mind, and we have some others we're considering.

What I would like to propose is that we agree to submit a witness list by five o'clock tomorrow. We could then finalize that next week, as a committee. I think that's more reasonable. The list that's been suggested by the previous committee is certainly helpful. We'll have a look at that and consider it and move forward that way.

I would suggest, and this is open to other members for comment, that no more than eight meetings would probably be sufficient. I've had a brief look over the lay of the land with respect to the Lobbying Act, and I think we could probably complete a review in that much time.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Del Mastro, I have a point of clarification and a couple of things about that.

In terms of the scope of the study, when you're talking about eight meetings, are you still proposing that it's sort of that high-level overview of the Lobbying Act?

I should add another piece of information. The proposal, when the lobbying commissioner comes before us on Tuesday, December 13, is that she would provide an overview of the Lobbying Act, and then she would provide another piece of material, both on the investigation process—because that was something the committee raised previously—and recommendations for changes to the Lobbying Act. So it would be a fairly extensive meeting with the lobbying commissioner, because I think Mrs. Davidson is the only person who was on the previous committee.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

I was going to recommend, for the benefit of committee members, if the committee so chooses, that officials from Treasury Board could be here next week to provide an in camera tutorial to members, just to give them an introduction to the Lobbying Act and to answer any specific questions they have about the Lobbying Act. But, really, it would be just a very basic introduction to what the Lobbying Act is, what it does, who it impacts on, and what the requirements of it are. If members are interested, my understanding is that they would be available to come in Tuesday or Thursday to give a very general, brief overview, so that we might be better prepared for the lobbying commissioner's appearance. But that's entirely up to members of the committee, if they feel they would like that.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Before I come to that, I have a couple of points of clarification.

Mr. Del Mastro, just to be clear, you're proposing that the lobbying commissioner's staff come in next week in one of our meetings?

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Treasury Board.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Treasury Board. I'm sorry, I missed that piece. Treasury Board, to provide an overview for members on either Tuesday or Thursday next week.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Right, just to foster the background knowledge of members, if they want. It's not something that I'm suggesting members have to have. It's elective. If people would like that, then I believe that if the clerk sought it, he would find that they'd be available for that. If it's not the will of the members of the committee, then we can proceed by starting this study with the lobbying commissioner.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Okay.

The second point of clarification for me is the eight meetings you're proposing. Are you suggesting that those eight meetings include both the presentation of the lobbying commissioner and the final meeting, where we would be providing instructions to the analysts?

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Yes.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Okay.

The clerk has pointed out that in the normal course of events Treasury Board would likely be called as a witness, and would likely have recommendations. So if they were to come next week, it sounds like it might be worthwhile to have it as a formal meeting, so that they could provide an overview, plus provide their list of recommendations, rather than calling them back at another point in time.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Okay. That's not really the purpose of this. This would be simply to provide background to members.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Okay.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

If you'd like to recall them as a witness to provide recommendations, you can do that as well.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Okay.