Evidence of meeting #24 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was come.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
You are now on the speakers' list, and I'm recognizing you as the next speaker.
Conservative
Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON
Then I move that we go in camera for the discussion of committee business.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Thank you, Madam Chair.
With regard to this motion to go in camera, I would like to refer members, and you, to our House of Commons Procedure and Practice.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
Maybe you'd like me to read out what a point of order is in here as well.
We're looking at page 1076, dealing with committees.
It's under “Types of Meetings and Activities”. I'd like to refer members to the in camera meetings definition and section of our rules of order. I'd like to read it out, starting with, “On occasion”, and for those who don't know what “on occasion” is, I have a definition: it's from time to time, every now and then—not every time a motion or something comes before this committee.
That's not really the point, but let me continue.
It says “...a committee may decide to hold an in camera meeting to deal with”, one, “administrative matters”, whether we have food at the table, whether we meet on Mondays or Tuesdays; two, “to consider a draft report or to receive a briefing.”
There are the three definitions of our meetings to go in camera. “Subcommittees on Agenda and Procedure usually meet in camera”; that's not our committee. “Committees also meet in camera to deal with documents or matters requiring confidentiality, such as national security.” I would suggest that the motion we're discussing here has very little to do with national security or confidentiality.
“Depending on the needs” of the committee, “one part of a meeting” may be “in public and the other part in camera”, which we have done in the past.
Madam Chair, I would ask you to rule on our procedures and rules that apply to all members. We were all given this book to discuss. This practice of going in camera is for matters that aren't necessary.... It specifically in here has three reasons to go in camera: administrative, draft consideration, or to receive a briefing.
This motion that we're discussing today has nothing to do with any one of these three, so, Madam Chair, I would encourage you to have the courage to rule that this particular motion, for which they needed help to even put on the floor, is out of order.
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
Thank you, Mr. Andrews.
I need to come back to two points on this matter. One is that the committee has a will in terms of determining what would be in camera or not, and committee members may signal that by moving a motion, if they deem that the matter before the committee is suitable for in camera discussion.
Secondly, once the motion to go in camera is moved, again, according to page 1077, “The motion is decided immediately without debate or amendment”. So although I have some sympathy with your point of order, I am bound by the rules.
I am now going to ask for a vote.
Do you have a point of order, Mr. Andrews?
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
I'm sorry, Mr. Dykstra. Thank you for your intervention, but Mr. Andrews has the floor on a point of order.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
As per your instructions just then, the committee would decide whether to go in camera after consulting our rules and procedures in this book. I would like you to rule on my point of order. You said we are immediately going to go to a vote, but you haven't ruled whether my point of order is valid. I think if you had the courage and insight to look at what we have here, it speaks....
Excuse me, Mr. Butt, would you like to read this?
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
Gentlemen, excuse me, please.
Mr. Andrews, if you would, finish with your point of order.
Liberal
Scott Andrews Liberal Avalon, NL
I was just saying, looking at our rules, that there are three distinct areas of discussion for which we might need to go in camera. This doesn't relate to any of them.
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
Thank you, Mr. Andrews. I believe I did rule on your point of order by indicating that I had considered the motion to move in camera as an admissible motion. As such, it's not a debatable motion, and therefore we will go straight to a vote on that motion.
On a point of order, I recognize Mr. Dusseault.
NDP
Pierre-Luc Dusseault NDP Sherbrooke, QC
With everything we have heard and out of respect for the witnesses, could we postpone the vote so that we can hold it in 10 or 15 minutes? That way, the witnesses who are here could continue. We could vote on the motion at the end.
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
The only way we can proceed is if there is unanimous consent in the committee to defer the vote on the in camera motion to allow the last...I believe you had about 45 seconds left, and I had Mr. Butt on the speakers' list for the commissioner.
I would need unanimous consent from the committee to proceed in that way. I'm at your will.
Conservative
NDP
The Chair NDP Jean Crowder
I don't have unanimous consent.
I believe Mr. Dusseault asked for a recorded vote to go in camera. We are now voting on the motion to go in camera.
(Motion agreed to: yeas 7; nays 4)
The motion is carried. We will move in camera. I will suspend for two minutes to allow us to change to proceeding in camera.
I will ask the witnesses to clear the room.
Thank you.
[Proceedings continue in camera]
[Public proceedings resume]
