Information & Ethics Committee on Feb. 16th, 2012

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Calkins.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Wetaskiwin, AB]

Thank you.

I also want to follow up on Mr. Butt's comments and add that this is a unique situation. It is not only a statutory review, but none of the officials we've heard here from the commissioner's office are in any way.... She's an independent officer of Parliament, at arm's length, operating away from political interference. We should keep that in mind.

The commissioner has been here with her senior officials every time we've asked her to come. We've heard from her, and she's been quite eloquent in what her requests and her asks are. Keep in mind that while it was an act of Parliament that created her office, the day-to-day administration and operation of her independent office shouldn't be put in a situation where she comes into conflict with the minister, or whatever the case may be.

It's regrettable that the minister can't come, but I think we can proceed with what we've been able to hear. If the parliamentary secretary is willing to come and bring some department officials to speak to goodness knows what—the creation of the act, the costs associated with the administration, I suppose—we're mindful of the fact that she operates with her own budget, independent of Parliament, reporting to Parliament on the actions and behaviours and discussions with lobbyists. I think we need to be mindful of that.

Madam Chair, I commend you and the clerk for doing the best you can to get the minister here. I don't think we need to belabour this issue any more. If you need something, I'm prepared to move a motion to accept your timetable as you have presented it today.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Thank you, Mr. Calkins.

We have a motion on the floor that we have the parliamentary secretary and Treasury Board officials appear on March 1.

Monsieur Morin.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I don't necessarily want to speak to this motion calling for the parliamentary secretary to appear before us.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Monsieur Morin, that's what's on the floor at this point. A motion supercedes anything else.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Can I move an amendment?

Could we postpone making a decision on this until we can ask the minister when he is available? It would have to be a Tuesday or a Thursday. Once we know when he is available, the clerk or the chair could give the committee an answer.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

If I can interrupt, Monsieur Morin, from what I understand, you're asking us to defer discussion and debate on the motion that's on the floor. That's not an amendment; it's a deferral of a decision on that motion.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I'm actually asking for us to ask the minister first for a date, and then decide....

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

I understand what you're asking, Monsieur Morin, but that is requesting a deferral of the motion that's on the floor. I'm not sensing that we have agreement on a deferral on the motion.

We're now dealing with the motion on the floor by Mr. Calkins. If you wish, you can comment on the motion that's before us.

[Dany Morin, NDP, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I just want to say that it is unacceptable for the parliamentary secretary to appear before us. The minister must absolutely appear before the committee to discuss this and answer questions about his own legislation. Hearing from the parliamentary secretary is unacceptable, and that is why I will vote against him being here. I absolutely want the minister to appear before the committee.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Mr. Andrews.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

First of all, this seems to be a trend with this minister and his appearances before committees. This is nothing new from this minister.

To Mrs. Davidson's comments, it's quite common for committees to proceed with other work and do other things while they wait for witnesses to come before the committee. There's nothing wrong with this committee proceeding forward with other studies until the minister's schedule can free him to come here. The question really is, does the minister want to come? He can't hide behind his schedule.

It's not uncommon for committees to proceed with studying two or three matters at the same time. When the minister's schedule frees up, he can come before this committee. We're in no urgent rush to proceed with this lobbying legislation review. We've been doing it for some time now. We've had some success. We've heard different aspects. We haven't heard other aspects from committee witnesses who we wish to have.

It's important that the minister come before this committee. This isn't life-threatening stuff. There are no deep, dark, secrets here to expose the minister to or embarrass the minister. It's kind of embarrassing that the minister doesn't want to come to discuss this issue. Is he too important to come to discuss the lobbying legislation? This is absolutely absurd.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Thank you, Mr. Andrews.

Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

I will vote against this motion. The minister must take responsibility. He is the minister responsible for the Lobbying Act. He is responsible for that legislation. If he cannot make this a priority, act as the minister responsible for the Lobbying Act and come talk to us about his role concerning this legislation, that would be unacceptable.

Ministers are accountable to Parliament. He should change his schedule in order to appear before us. He is responsible. If the minister is accountable to Parliament, he should find a way to come meet with us because we are discussing the legislation for which he is primarily responsible. He is connected to this act. This should be a priority and the minister in charge should appear before us. He should change his schedule to make that possible.

I don't really believe that the minister has no time or cannot find a moment to come meet with us, especially since we are giving him many possibilities. If this minister is serious, he will make time and come meet with us.

Therefore, I will vote against this motion.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

Thank you, Mr. Dusseault.

I have no other speakers, so I'm going to ask the clerk to read the motion. Then we'll go to a vote.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Chad Mariage]

The motion, as I've drafted it quickly here, reads:

That, for the week of February 27 to March 2, the Committee proceed as follows:

- on February 28, proceed to the instructions to the analysts for the drafting of a report on the Lobbying Act, and then proceed to the consideration of the draft report on the CBC study.

- on March 1, that the Parliamentary Secretary, Mr. Saxton, and senior officials from Treasury Board Secretariat appear for the first hour, and that the Committee then proceed to the consideration of the CBC report.

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

We're in the process of a vote, Mr. Dusseault.

[Pierre-Luc Dusseault, NDP, Sherbrooke, QC]

Can we have a recorded division?

[The Chair, NDP, Jean Crowder]

We'll have a recorded vote.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 6; nays 4)

Everybody have a good week in your riding.

The meeting is adjourned.