Information & Ethics Committee on April 24th, 2012

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay.

I suppose, as parliamentarians, there seems to be a learning gap between the traditions of this place and how things are communicated and the new tools that are available to anybody with an email account. One of the tools that you used was characterized—and forgive me, I don't want to impugn you—as a form of character assassination. A minister of the crown's personal life was put into a very public space, at which point it could not be very well controlled. These tools are incredibly powerful.

What connection do you make back to the legislation that was being discussed in the context of this controversy, specifically Bill C-30?

[Adam Carroll]

I agree there is information that is more on someone's personal life than a public life. Mr. Toews himself has said regarding personal life, private life, that it's all fair game. He said that afterwards. But with respect to why I used this publicly available and accessible material in this way, it was because the government was proposing a bill that would have them access our private, personal information.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Do you think it is fair game? You worked in a parliamentary context. You worked for members of Parliament who engage in public life. Do you think the exposure of someone's divorce documents, as in this case, is fair?

[Adam Carroll]

I think any information that is available to the public should be public. That's my personal opinion. I'm a great believer in access to full information. People can make their judgments themselves.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, do I have time?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

You have a few seconds in which to wrap up.

[Nathan Cullen, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

That's interesting. There may be lessons that you have learned, but I suggest there might be lessons for all of us on just where that line is, as parties increasingly engage more in personal attacks than substantive attacks regarding legislation or a party's position. Character assassinations by certain parties in particular have become the norm rather than the exception.

Thank you for the time.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you, Mr. Cullen.

Mr. Dreeshen has the floor for five minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I too want to congratulate you on your new position.

Mr. Carroll, I have a couple of questions. I want to go back to part of what was taking place with the NDP and the situation that occurred there. I'm sure you appreciate the support you are getting today. However, I'm just curious about how closely aligned with, or what you know about, the Liberal blogger who thought that having the NDP take the heat for this was in your party's best interest. That is what took place. Maybe we want to take a different look at it right now.

Do you have any association with the blogger?

[Adam Carroll]

I'm sorry, but you haven't mentioned anybody's name.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Neither have you. You said that there was a Liberal blogger who had taken the NDP to task. That's what I'm asking about, that is, if the person you mentioned as this Liberal blogger was someone you knew. Whether you do or you don't, I just want the answer.

[Adam Carroll]

There were a number of people who posted their own theories. You're asking if I know that individual. I don't know what individual you're talking about.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

That's fair enough. You did mention it as well; you brought that up. I assumed that you might have some idea what you were talking about earlier in that regard.

I have a couple of other questions. You were let go by the Liberal Party. The Liberal leader told the House of Commons that you offered your resignation and he accepted it.

Was your resignation voluntary?

[Adam Carroll]

No.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Thank you for the honest answer.

Are you getting any severance pay or separation pay?

[Paul Champ, Lawyer, Champ and Associates]

I would object to that, Mr. Chair. I'd ask permission to address that.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Mr. Champ, you cannot answer the question unless you have the unanimous consent of the committee.

I will let Mr. Carroll answer the question. You can also consult each other if you have the committee's permission.

A point of order from Mr. Andrews.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

That question is totally out of line. It has nothing to do with what we're discussing here today. I would suggest, Mr. Dreeshen, that you go and read the procedures and House affairs manuals of your own staff. That would explain how separation pay is awarded. You know the answer to that question. You don't need him to answer that question. I would suggest that you go and read your own staff manual. It would be similar.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to continue.

Actually, just going back to what Mr. Cullen had talked about regarding advice for staffers, I suppose it has something to do with the treatment you would possibly get.

So my question is, who asked you to resign, if it was not voluntary?

[Adam Carroll]

Bob Rae.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer, AB]

I'll give the rest of my time to Mr. Del Mastro.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

You have two and a half minutes left.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Carroll, prior to February 26, were any of Jordan Owens, Geoff Hall, or Adam Goldenberg aware that you were involved in the release of the minister's divorce files?

[Adam Carroll]

I met Adam Goldenberg when I was living in Vancouver, and that was the extent of our connection. I don't know the other two people you talked about.

[Dean Del Mastro, Conservative, Peterborough, ON]

You indicated that you were a small fish, but when the Liberal Party got knocked all the way down to 30 seats, presumably a lot of Liberal staffers lost their jobs, but you maintained your position. You couldn't have been that small a fish. The fact that you don't seem to know very many people, or know who could have been in charge of an office, or who might be in charge of a file, or how a file got there is really striking.

How do you square the circle? How did you maintain your position with the Liberal Party when a lot of people lost their jobs, if you're so insignificant in the office, insignificant to the point that you don't really know any MPs, you don't really know who Liberal staffers are, and you don't really know who runs the office? How did you maintain your position?