Evidence of meeting #54 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was young.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jane Tallim  Co-Executive Director, MediaSmarts
Colin Bennett  Professor, University of Victoria
Matthew Johnson  Director of Education, MediaSmarts

3:30 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Order, please. We will now get started.

As you can see on our agenda, we will continue our study on privacy and the social media. We have witnesses from two organizations: Mrs. Tallim and Mr. Johnson from MediaSmarts—or Habilomédias in French—as well as Professor Bennett from the University of Victoria, who joins us by videoconference from Victoria, B.C.

As usual, each witness will have 10 minutes for a presentation. This will be followed by a period of questions and answers.

I will now give the floor to Mrs. Tallim and Mr. Johnson from MediaSmarts.

3:30 p.m.

Jane Tallim Co-Executive Director, MediaSmarts

Thank you very much.

Hello, I am Jane Tallim, co-executive director of MediaSmarts. With me is Matthew Johnson, who is our director of education and resident privacy expert. Thank you so much for inviting us here today.

We've been following the testimony to this committee with great interest and the many excellent recommendations that you've received so far. We've also noticed the number of expert witnesses who have stated that education, especially for children and youth, is an essential part of a comprehensive approach to addressing online privacy issues.

With this in mind, we would like to focus our remarks on how digital literacy, and in particular privacy education, can help young people develop good privacy habits for social media and other online activities.

Today's presentation is very timely because next week is Canada's annual Media Literacy Week. It's co-led by the Canadian Teachers' Federation and us. This year's theme is “Privacy Matters”. On Monday we'll be in Montreal hosting a youth panel exploring this topic to launch the week.

For those of you who aren't familiar with our organization, MediaSmarts is a national not-for-profit centre for digital and media literacy. We work to ensure that children and youth have the critical thinking skills to engage with media as active and informed digital citizens.

We were launched in 1995 as Media Awareness Network through a CRTC initiative on television violence. The commission's policy on this issue stated that although industry self-regulation and TV classification systems would play a role, public awareness and media literacy programs represented the primary solution to TV violence.

The same thinking applies today to online privacy. Given the inherent difficulties legislators face keeping up with constantly evolving platforms and applications, education plays a critical role in helping Canadians of all ages understand their rights and manage their privacy and personal data.

Digital literacy is the term we use to describe the range of skills needed by young people to make wise, informed, and ethical online decisions. Privacy management is one of these core skills.

Our digital literacy resources and programs are informed by our ongoing research project, Young Canadians in a Wired World. This is Canada's longest running and most comprehensive investigation of the behaviours, attitudes, and opinions of Canadian children and youth with respect to their use of the Internet.

One of our key areas of inquiry is young people's understanding and behaviours relating to online privacy, including the types of privacy invasions they encounter, and the role of adults in building awareness and influencing behaviours.

We recently launched phase three of the young Canadians project with funding from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. Dr. Valerie Steeves of the University of Ottawa, who is our lead investigator, presented our qualitative findings to this committee in May, so you've already had a snapshot of how online surveillance has become a reality for today's youth.

Although young people find the constant surveillance annoying, persistent myths about stranger danger and Internet risks encourage them to buy into the idea that they need to be monitored to keep them safe online. The constant surveillance by parents, schools, and corporations, and young people's acceptance of it is cause for concern. Privacy is a fundamental human right, and continuous surveillance chips away at our private space. Moreover, this constant scrutiny undermines the mutual trust, confidence, and communication between adults and youth that is essential to giving young people the autonomy they need to develop digital life skills.

Finally, if youth grow up in an environment where surveillance at home and at school is normal and accepted, they are less likely to be aware of or to exercise their privacy rights regarding corporate surveillance.

We're going to be heading into classrooms across the country next February with our national survey to explore many of the privacy issues that emerged in the qualitative study. Specifically, we want to learn where the gaps are in digital literacy skills so we can address them in educational materials for classrooms and communities. For example, we'll be asking students if anyone has ever taught them how to read privacy policies or terms of use on websites.

Drawing from past young Canadians research findings, we have developed an extensive collection of resources on privacy management, ranging from games to teach good privacy habits to young children, to a comprehensive professional development workshop that trains teachers in how to address and improve the state of privacy as it pertains to the online activities of their students.

In our educational materials we focus on encouraging youth to make good choices about their own privacy, and also on teaching privacy ethics. Not only is it important to have our privacy respected and protected, we need to respect and protect the online privacy of others. This idea is most immediately relevant when it comes to social interactions online, but it has implications for corporate uses of privacy as well. One reason we place privacy education in the context of digital literacy is that, as other presenters have noted, privacy is not a stand-alone issue. It intersects with safety, cyber security. cyber bullying, authentication of information and digital citizenship.

An important part of digital citizenship is understanding and exercising your rights, both as a citizen and a consumer. To do that, youth need to know that their personal information has value and that they have legal and contractual recourse in protecting it.

Perceived importance of information privacy is a critical factor in determining how well young people manage their online privacy. With children going online at increasingly younger ages, this sense of that personal information is valuable and belongs to oneself is important to cultivate, even at the primary level. For example, we have a Privacy Pirates game on our website, which was funded by Google. It helps younger students start to understand this concept.

Support for the critical importance of privacy education for youth has precedent in Canada and internationally. In 2008, Canada's privacy commissioners and privacy oversight officials passed a resolution on children's online privacy, where they committed to improve the state of privacy as it pertains to the online activities of children and youth by implementing public education activities to increase their awareness of online privacy risks. Since that time, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner has produced several excellent educational resources and has funded organizations, including ours, to produce privacy education materials.

In February of this year, the OECD adopted a recommendation on enhanced children's online protection, recognizing that the protection of children online encompasses content risks, contact risks, consumer risks, and risks relating to information security and online privacy. The OECD recommends that national governments foster awareness raising and education as essential tools for empowering parents and children, and develop responses that include all stakeholders, and integrate a mix of public and private, voluntary and legal, awareness raising, educational, and technical measures.

Good comparative models for Canada are Britain and Australia. Both have strong digital literacy components in their national digital strategies. In Australia, the federal regulator, ACMA, produces many resources addressing children's online privacy concerns. In the U.K., they've coined the notion that Britons should bear a digital entitlement, which includes not only access but also the right to basic digital literacy skills, including privacy.

The notion of privacy education for all is essential to fostering informed citizens who recognize and challenge invasive practices online. As several witnesses have noted, when the public pushes, the industry tends to pull back.

It's a widely held belief that young people, whether they be Facebook addicts or aspiring YouTube celebrities, don't care about privacy. This isn't true. In fact, the way youth understand privacy may be more relevant than how most adults view it, because they see it not as a matter of deciding whether or not to share, but as having control over the things they want to share.

To support youth, we need to widen the current focus on privacy safety risks to include privacy rights, ethical use, recourse mechanisms, and the civic and democratic dimensions of privacy. Privacy education must be supported on a national level, both through the K to 12 curriculum in schools and public awareness campaigns to inform ail Canadians.

Thank you.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you very much for your presentation.

We will now hear Mr. Bennett, live from the beautiful city of Victoria, B.C., who will make a presentation. He is a professor at the University of Victoria.

Mr. Bennett, please. You have 10 minutes.

3:40 p.m.

Dr. Colin Bennett Professor, University of Victoria

Thank you very much. I trust you can hear me okay.

3:40 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Yes, I can hear you perfectly.

November 1st, 2012 / 3:40 p.m.

Professor, University of Victoria

Dr. Colin Bennett

I thank you for the opportunity to appear before your committee and to speak about this important issue.

I am a professor of political science at the University of Victoria and have been studying privacy protection issues for nearly 30 years in Canada and internationally. I've written or edited six books on the subject and numerous articles. I'm currently in receipt of a grant from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council to study privacy protection of social media. I'm also working on this same subject under a contributions grant from the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada.

The privacy questions raised by social networking services are broad and dynamic, as you've no doubt discovered. Social networking challenges some of the traditional approaches and assumptions behind our privacy protection laws. As you've just heard, it requires extensive education.

The Privacy Commissioner of Canada has already outlined the privacy principles that should apply to social media. Her office has been at the forefront of global efforts to ensure that big data companies abide by established privacy rules and practices. But social media is not just out there, and it's not just about Facebook, it's also about our own organizations and our own practices.

Rather than discuss social networking in all its manifestations, I want to address an area of social networking and privacy that is far closer to your own experiences and lives as politicians. I want to raise a set of questions about how your own political parties use social networking services, and indeed, other sources of personal information to build databases about Canadian citizens.

I have just co-authored a report on privacy in Canada’s political parties for the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. This work was started back in 2011 and was published earlier this year. I'd like to take this opportunity to summarize the main findings, because I think this relates closely to the subjects of your inquiries.

Canada’s federal political parties can and do collect a large amount and variety of information on Canadian citizens: on voters, volunteers, donors, members, and supporters. A disparate and fluctuating number of employees and volunteers might also have access to these data, individuals who may have no privacy and security training. Increasingly, these data are communicated through highly mobile and dispersed electronic formats, and increasingly, they are captured through the observation of social networking activity.

Canadian parties now operate extensive voter management databases; they have been doing so for some time. There are the Conservatives' constituent information management system, CIMS, Liberalist, and NDP Vote. The foundation of these databases is the electoral list provided under the authority of the Elections Act by Elections Canada, but upon that framework, a large and increasing range of other data about voters is added and analyzed.

These data come from a variety of sources: telephone polling, traditional canvassing methods, petitions, letters, commercially available geo-demographic and marketing databases, and indeed, from social networking services. Overall, however, for a variety of reasons, the contents of those systems are shrouded in some secrecy.

As new technologies pioneered in U.S. elections increasingly play a role in modern campaigning, so the range and variety of personal data available to parties will increase, and so will the concerns about the protection of personal privacy.

Here are some examples: smart phone applications for political canvassers; targeted online advertisement software; targeted e-mail campaigns, which match IP addresses with other data sets showing party affiliation, donation history, and socio-economic characteristics; sophisticated market segmentation strategies aligning online and offline behaviour; extensive use of robocalling and robotexting; and, of course, the use of social networking and social media to plan campaigns, to target likely voters and donors, and to measure impact and engagement.

Social media not only provide a convenient method to target likely supporters, but also to capture increasingly refined information about the preferences and behaviours of voters, and their contacts and their friends. These developments have received much attention in the current U.S. election cycle. One of the most notable trends is the increasing use of customized and targeted political advertisements based on the digital trails individuals leave through their social networking activities. A recent report suggests there were no fewer than 76 different tracking programs that were observable on www.barackobama.com.

Surveillance during Canadian elections is less extensive and is less intrusive—well, so far. Nevertheless there have been a number of recent controversies that have raised concerns about the practices of political parties and have raised the profile of this issue.

The Privacy Commissioner has also received a number of complaints and inquiries about the activities of our political parties over the last several years, and they've also been raised to some extent in the provinces. However, she can do little to address these inquiries because, unlike in most other democratic countries, Canadian federal privacy protection law does not cover our political organizations.

Parties do not engage in much commercial activity and are therefore largely unregulated under the Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, PIPEDA, or substantially similar provincial laws. They're not government agencies and therefore are unregulated by the Privacy Act. The only federal law that really governs their privacy practices is the Canada Elections Act, but that legislation only applies to those voter registration data collected and shared with parties and candidates under the authority of that legislation.

Parties are also exempt from the new anti-spam legislation, Bill C-28, as well as from the do not call regulations administered through the CRTC. Thus, for the most part, individuals have no legal rights to learn what information is contained in party databases, to access and correct those data, to remove themselves from the systems, or to restrict the collection, use, and disclosure of their personal data. For the most part, parties have no legal obligations to keep that information secure, to only retain it for as long as necessary, and to control who might have access to it.

Virtually every other public or private organization in Canada must abide by these basic rules, so why should political parties be different? Of course, I concede that political parties play a critical role in our democracy. Parties need personal information to mobilize and to educate voters and for a variety of other reasons, and it has been claimed that these important functions outweigh the arguments for regulation and that therefore voluntary self-regulation will suffice, but as our report demonstrates, the current voluntary policies of our main federal political parties are incomplete, and they are inadequate.

From the point of view of an ordinary supporter or contributor, or potential voter who wishes to exercise control over his or her personal information, the existing voluntary privacy commitments of Canada’s main federal parties are often difficult to find, often inconsistent, and often somewhat vague.

No party is any better or worse than any other here—I'm not picking winners or losers—but there's little evidence, frankly, that any of your parties has given sustained consideration to privacy and to the risks associated with amassing vast amounts of personal data. For example, there's no link to privacy on the home pages of either the Liberals or the NDP, the last time I checked. There is a link on that of the Conservative Party, which is fairly prominent, but their policy is also somewhat incomplete, and it contains vague assertions and exemptions.

It would be my preference for Canadian federal political parties to be brought within the statutory requirements of PIPEDA and therefore under the authority of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. I would urge the committee to consider that. However, in the meantime I think more can be done on a voluntary basis.

I think it would be a good idea—and I have read that some political parties have already done this, but it's not necessarily prominent—that all federal political parties declare that they voluntarily abide by the obligations in PIPEDA. It would be a good idea for them to revise their privacy policies and base them on the 10 privacy principles upon which PIPEDA is based, and to publish these more prominently. I think all parties should appoint a responsible official, the equivalent of a chief privacy officer, who would have overall responsibility for the collection, use, and dissemination of personally identifiable information. All political parties should adopt appropriate risk management strategies in case of data breaches. Data breaches are seen in many other areas of our life, in the public and the private sector. I think there should be training of staff and volunteers on privacy and security issues.

It may be that some of those activities are already occurring. I don't wish to be too critical, but my point is that it's not necessarily obvious, and therefore it's very difficult for individuals and ordinary voters and supporters, etc., to find out what their rights are.

These questions are not just about privacy. Lack of attention to the protection of personal information can erode the trust that Canadians have in the political parties and in our democratic system. In an age of social networking, being more proactive about privacy protection and providing those necessary assurances is also good organizational practice.

In summary, I applaud the committee’s attention to these challenging issues concerning social media and to the practices of big data companies such as Facebook and Google. There's been a great deal written about that subject, and I can certainly talk about those wider issues. At the same time, little attention has been given to the questions that I raise here, which I think are very much related to the topic of your inquiry and, of course, to your own individual work.

I would encourage you, therefore, to think about what I've said and to work within your own organizations to get your own houses in order and to encourage your respective parties to follow the same set of information privacy principles that apply to most other Canadian organizations.

I fear that controversies about parties and privacy protection of voters will only continue. The appropriate management of personal data in an era of extensive online social networking is not only in the interests of individual citizens, but also in the interests of your own parties and of the long-term health of our political system.

Thank you very much for your attention.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you very much for your presentation. We can really feel the election fever in Victoria.

I will now give the floor to Mrs. Borg for seven minutes.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here with us today.

My first questions will be to the representatives of MediaSmarts.

We often hear in this committee that control measures should be in the hands of users. This is why we need an organization like yours. Indeed, you cannot give control to someone who cannot understand what is at play. People cannot use existing controls if they do not have a good understanding of how the web works. So we need to increase digital literacy.

Do you think Canada is doing enough to promote digital literacy to the young or to all citizens in general?

3:50 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, MediaSmarts

Jane Tallim

We are quite optimistic. We made a submission to the government consultations for the digital economy and are still quite hopeful that, as it has been in other countries, digital literacy will be a core pillar of any national strategy.

We were also very heartened in reading Janet Goulding's testimony, that she indicated the importance of digital literacy skills development throughout her testimony.

One of the challenges in Canada, though, is that education tends to fall provincially, and the federal agenda is a little different. We have all sorts of good work being done. For example, HRSDC focuses on work skills development. Really, we need some leadership in that public piece, that entitlement piece in the U.K. which I alluded to, as well as in ensuring that Canadian youth are also well equipped to be citizens in the digital world.

3:50 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you very much.

Do you have something to add?

3:50 p.m.

Matthew Johnson Director of Education, MediaSmarts

I'd like to add that you're absolutely right that simply providing tools to protect privacy is not enough.

We know this from a study that was done at Columbia University in the United States. It found that of the participants in the study, and these were students ages 18 to 25, 95%, or almost all of them, had changed their privacy settings on Facebook and felt confident that these settings reflected their desired privacy. However, when their profiles were studied, it was found that every single one of them had either shared things they did not intend to share, or in a lesser number of cases, had kept things private that they had desired to share.

Even though there is an awareness, and even if they have the tools, we know that the understanding of how to use those tools effectively does not come without education.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

In this regard, you mentioned that we need to educate the young and all users in general. Indeed, this is not simply a matter of age.

Who should be in charge of this? The private sector, social media companies or governments? How do you perceive the roles of the different stakeholders in this area?

3:55 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, MediaSmarts

Jane Tallim

Traditionally, the most effective responses are comprehensive partnerships. In its recommendations as well, the OECD was stressing the importance of having community, education, government, and the private sector work together to create these comprehensive approaches.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you.

You briefly mentioned the British model. Can you tell us why this model was so successful?

3:55 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, MediaSmarts

Jane Tallim

It is currently being evaluated, but in the U.K. they created the concept, as I said, of a digital entitlement. With that they've prevented the siloing of digital literacy skills development among the general public and their being classified as just work skills development.

There are many programs that were initiated in the U.K. There is Go ON UK, which is a foundation now, which has all sorts of training and educational resources for the general public. They are also very interested in reaching more vulnerable sectors of the public. They've created something that is a national campaign, which anyone can access and use.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

This is very interesting.

Some witnesses, including Valerie Steeves, talked to us about standards. In the development of standards, you would not necessarily want to simply prevent young people from using the Internet or social media because they have some benefits. As a matter of fact, they can be a source of learning, especially for the young. There are numerous examples of this.

In your opinion, what kind of standards should we have? Should the standards be different for younger people?

3:55 p.m.

Director of Education, MediaSmarts

Matthew Johnson

Legislation may well play a role. Certainly our position is that young people do need to understand what they're agreeing to. They need to understand when they use any service what information they are giving out, what information about their activities may be collected, and what will be done with that information by either the operator of the service or third parties to whom it may be sold. How this transparency comes about may well be from a combination of legislation, industry regulation, consumer action, which we have seen has been very effective. However, in whichever case it is, we do need the additional pillar of privacy education so that young people are able to understand that this information is available to them and to make use of it in an effective way.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

So there is more than legislation. We should have a multifaceted program.

Do I have any time left?

3:55 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

You have five seconds.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

Charmaine Borg NDP Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Then, I am done.

Thank you very much.

3:55 p.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Mrs. Davidson, please, for seven minutes.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, presenters. Certainly it's an interesting topic that we've been studying for quite some time, and it's always interesting to hear different perspectives.

I'm particularly interested in the education of children and youth. An area that I don't understand very well is how the message is getting through to our children. When I look at my grandchildren, who are five and seven years old, how are they being taught? You talked about going into the classrooms next February. What grades do you target and what ages of children? What do you try to teach them? How do you impress upon a five-year-old what privacy even means?

4 p.m.

Co-Executive Director, MediaSmarts

Jane Tallim

With our young Canadians survey next year, we will be going into classrooms from grade 4 to grade 11. We will have a wide range of information. We do two versions of the survey: one for younger students in grades 4 to 6, and one for students in grades 4 to 11. Outcomes for various digital literacy skills, privacy included, are throughout the curriculum in Canada, but as you can imagine, it varies from province to province. That's one of the things we would really like to see leadership in. Some provinces do it better than others. Some provinces start with younger ages than others.

When she talked to you last spring, I think Professor Steeves mentioned that part of our qualitative phase of the young Canadians project was teacher interviews, which we did as well. The teachers had tremendous insight as well. Many of them really do want to start integrating technology into their classrooms in authentic ways so they can begin to develop these skills. Of course they also need training, support, and curriculum outcomes that give them some guidance as to what skills youth need.

I think there are pieces there. What's really needed perhaps is a comprehensive framework that looks at those core competencies that are needed relating to privacy education and other digital literacy skills so our teachers have some guidance and consistency in how they're taught.

4 p.m.

Director of Education, MediaSmarts

Matthew Johnson

To add to that, you had asked how it is we can teach privacy skills to different ages. I'll answer, just from our perspective, that all of our resources are created by educators as well as by people who are experts in digital literacy issues, including privacy.

That means everything we do is based in part on our understanding of pedagogy and cognitive development. We base it on what young people are able to understand at different ages. Also, it comes from our own research and awareness of research being done around the world, so that we're able to listen to young people and know what it is they're concerned about in terms of privacy and other issues at different ages. We use that as a beginning point to get them interested.

That's a big part of our research. Why we conduct our research is to understand that, as has been shown again and again in research around the world, young people do care about privacy. To be able to make them aware of the issues, we have to talk about it in a language that is relevant to them.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Patricia Davidson Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

That's a statement that we've heard over and over again, that young people do care about privacy. I'm really glad to hear that statement from different areas. It's not just coming from one source. That's very encouraging.

One thing I'd like to ask you about, though, further on the privacy issue with youth, is the consent forms and the privacy rules. I don't know too many adults, let alone youth, who can comprehend what any of these multi-page forms mean. Is there an effort to try to standardize something that would be more in a youth format?