Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. You know how I like to set the scene so that we can really understand the issue. That is simply what I was doing, Mr. Chair. Thank you all the same for rigorously calling me to order.
I will therefore go immediately to the matter of information sources, but first I think it is important to say at least once that we Canadians benefit from CBC/Radio-Canada's unique mandate and role since we have the opportunity to tell our stories at extremely low cost.
Mr. Warkentin, I agree that $1 billion is a lot of money. However, this public broadcaster costs $34 per Canadian annually. As we say in Quebec, that is a real bargain compared to the United Kingdom and Japan, where a public broadcaster costs $90 to $100 per capita, or to Germany, where it costs $147 per citizen. So it is important to remind people that our public broadcaster really does not cost us a lot of money. That is a piece of information that is not widely disseminated.
I see the intention concealed behind the amendment respecting journalistic sources presented by our Conservative Party friends. In the circumstances, I do not think that amendment is enough to paper over the cracks and reassure all the stakeholders who have appeared before this committee. They told us how this amendment jeopardized journalistic work and could even lead to the disclosure of crucial journalistic information and perhaps to the disclosure of certain sources.
This amendment also raises another question regarding the ability of CBC journalists to do their work if this kind of threat is held over them like a sword of Damocles. This bill would weaken the act and take us from a system of exclusions to one of exemptions. Journalistic work might then be jeopardized by an access to information request made by a company or citizen six months later. Potential witnesses or whistleblowers would then simply decide not to speak to CBC journalists, knowing that they might lose their protection if the information they disclose does not affect the crown corporation's independence from government. That is our interpretation. This is a danger, since the doors will be opened and journalists will then have to fight and go to court.
For example, we saw how the serious work done by journalists on the Enquête program, who met with people over several months, led to the Charbonneau Commission. That is genuinely useful to Quebec right now. That commission would probably not have been struck without the protection afforded to journalistic sources. We feel that protection should not be jeopardized. However, that is the aim of the amendment that Mr. Butt has presented to us.
Journalists operate on the basis of trust. From the moment you cast any doubt, you undermine the mutual trust necessary for a witness to open up and provide privileged information, even though that may jeopardize his or her career or physical safety. If that kind of doubt arises, witnesses may go and see competitors such as CTV, if they are anglophones, or TVA if they are Quebec francophones. That is what was revealed by many who wrote to us or who testified on this point.
In our debate on journalistic sources, it is important to recall certain comments that were made by organizations that are major players in this field. I am going to read those comments in English, Mr. Chair, because they were sent to us in that language.
For example, the Fair Accountability Initiative for Reform told us this:
FAIR believes that Bill C-461 will seriously disadvantage the CBC in securing information from confidential sources about matters that affect the public interest.
Whistleblowers looking for a trusted journalist to make public a serious disclosure of wrongdoing are likely to be terrified—with good reason—of the possible consequences of being identified. If they know that a CBC journalist may have to disclose his or her source to a third party, while other journalists do not, this will be a very strong incentive to avoid the CBC....
Over the past six years we have taken calls from more than 300 bona fide whistleblowers on our confidential information hotline....
Whistleblowers are typically role-model employees. Contrary to some portrayals, they are not disloyal, under-performing, disgruntled employees. In fact, they are much more likely to be respected high-performers who are intensely loyal to the organization and its mandate....
Becoming a whistleblower is often not a choice. It happens because, simply by doing their job properly—auditing finances, inspecting engineering work, investigating crimes, treating patients—some employees come across information that it is their duty to report....
...whistleblowers do not consider [non-disclosure] an option. Their moral code, their sense of duty, or their professional code of ethics do not allow this....
I think it is clear from FAIR's testimony that whistleblowers are a particular type of employee who want to do right. They want public funds to be well administered and legislation to be complied with. They must deal with credible journalists who will be in a position to protect them. We have seen journalists willing to go to prison to protect their journalistic sources. That is because they are professionals and they are doing their job.
Canadian Journalists for Free Expression also calls for Bill C-461 to be rejected. That organization believes that the bill is so poorly designed and so jeopardizes the CBC's journalistic integrity that it cannot be repaired with amendments. It must therefore be withdrawn or rejected. In its view, it has become clear that the primary goal of the author and supporters of Bill C-461 is to permit disclosure of the compensation of all public officials. The CBC is merely a politically vulnerable means to achieving that. It is an easy target.
The author of the bill himself acknowledged that it constituted a piecemeal reform, one consisting of vaguely related elements, although he did not admit the harmful effects it would have on the general enforcement of access to information regulations.
We are very concerned about this abuse of judicial procedure. If Parliament wishes to compel public servants to disclose their compensation, it should imitate other Canadian parliaments and adopt a clear and simple bill obviously designed to achieve that objective. The aim of Bill C-461 is to do the same thing, but in a roundabout way, which has the collateral effect of discrediting Canada a little more. It makes the access to information and privacy system even more complex and exposes it to political manipulation.
Regardless of committee members' opinion of the CBC and compensation of its executives, they certainly do not want to nullify its ability to carry out its journalistic mandate. They believe that current regulations, which have been clearly explained by the courts, work very well and provide effective protection for the CBC's confidential sources, its independence from government and its intrinsic right to freedom of expression.
Once again,
“if it ain't broke, don't fix it.”
People agree on the interpretation of section 68.1 and are concerned about the collateral damage that might be caused if Bill C-461 were passed. If it were merely a matter of disclosing the salaries of senior officials, that would have been feasible, but we are proceeding here by means of a bill that affects the access to information of a crown corporation that also does journalistic work. That is where the problem arises and where the situation could be dangerous for working journalists.
The Canadian Media Guild recalled that Parliament and legislators should—
