Information & Ethics Committee on May 8th, 2018

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Charlie Angus]

I'm going to take absolutely no side comments today. This is going to be a well-run meeting.

Good morning, everyone. Pursuant to standing order 81(4), the main estimates 2018-19: vote 1 under the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying, vote 1 under the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, vote 1 under the Office of the Senate ethics officer, and votes 1 and 5 under Offices of the Information and Privacy Commissioners of Canada, referred to the committee on Monday, April 16, 2018.

This morning we're very pleased to have, from the Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying, Madam Bélanger and François Bertrand.

We will begin with your opening remarks.

[Nancy Bélanger, Commissioner of Lobbying, Office of the Commissioner of Lobbying]

Thank you very much. Good morning, Mr. Chair, and good morning, members of the committee.

This is my first appearance before you as Commissioner of Lobbying. I want to let you know that I feel quite at home in my new position. The staff has been most welcoming and supportive since my arrival.

The team is comprised of professional and dedicated employees. I am quite fortunate to have them assisting me on the delivery of my mandate aimed at enhancing transparency and accountability of federal lobbying activities. This objective contributes to Canadians' confidence in public office holders' decision-making.

I am pleased to be here today to discuss the main estimates and outline the priorities of our office in the coming year. I am joined by François Bertrand, who is our director of registration and client services. Unfortunately, the CFO could not join us today.

The Lobbying Act mandates three key activities: maintaining the Registry of Lobbyists; developing programs that foster awareness of the act and the Lobbyists' Code of Conduct; and enforcing compliance with the act and the code.

The 2018-19 main estimates for the office come to about $4.5 million. This is essentially the same amount as last year and, in fact, as the last 10 years.

Our office is currently comprised of 26 full-time employees, and salaries continue to represent about two-thirds of the expenditures. Of the operating budget of approximately $1.5 million, about 40% is allocated to acquire services for program support and corporate services, such as HR, finance, and contracting services. These services are obtained from other government institutions. This approach provides access to a broad set of expertise in a cost-effective manner. In addition, about $500,000 is expended towards obtaining IT services.

Allow me to give you an overview of last year’s highlights. The registry is the primary tool for enabling transparency in lobbying. It is an online source of information on who is lobbying federal public office holders on what topics. The timeliness of reporting communications with designated public office holders remains high, as 94% of the over 23,000 monthly communication reports of last year were filed on time. This is positive, as timely information leads to increased transparency.

On the outreach front, I am particularly proud of the recent signing of a MOU with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner on matters related to education and outreach.

With respect to compliance and enforcement, two files were referred to the RCMP, and one report was tabled in Parliament. We currently have a caseload of 50 files. I am pleased to report that our employees developed a three-year strategic plan to set priorities for the office. This plan identifies four key result areas, and I will share with you our priorities for 2018-19.

The first key area is a modern lobbyists registration system. A team develops and maintains the registry while another provides guidance and advice to support registrants. Our office will undertake an evaluation of its registration and client services functions and begin implementing recommendations from last year’s technical review. Work will focus on ensuring that data continues to be secure, keeps up with technological advances, and enhances not only the user experience but also compatibility with mobile devices.

The second key area is enhanced outreach and communications for Canadians. Informing stakeholders of the requirements arising from the act and the code is important to increase not only their knowledge, but also their compliance.

Upon my arrival, I reviewed the existing organizational structure. As a result, I decided not to appoint a deputy commissioner and to operate with only two executive positions. I also eliminated the position of senior adviser to the commissioner. This allowed me to create a team dedicated to communications and outreach.

To this end, our office will implement the recommendations from last year's evaluation of the program. We will update outreach materials and renew the website to make it easier for all to access the information they need.

Following the signing of the memorandum of understanding with the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner, we will set up joint webinars on issues of interest to both lobbyists and public office-holders.

The third key area is effective compliance and enforcement activities. The responsible team monitors and investigates allegations of breaches of the act and the code. The priority in this key area will be to continue to review our investigative procedures and practices in order to identify further efficiencies so that our findings are timely and relevant.

Fourth, but certainly not least, is an exceptional workplace. I wish to make our office an employer of choice by establishing a positive and healthy work environment that fosters engagement and innovation.

Our office has developed and is implementing its strategy on mental health. We will explore initiatives to provide tools that will assist staff in developing positive mental health habits.

We will also look at creating career development programs and opportunities for our employees as career advancement is limited in a small organization such as ours.

Our office is preparing to move to a new location in 2019, providing an opportunity for us to better integrate knowledge across the organization and to modernize our IT systems. This project will require resources that were identified in the government’s budget of 2018. We are also preparing for the pending legislative review of the Lobbying Act. We will be ready to meet with you when this exercise begins.

Throughout my mandate, I will focus on initiatives that offer value for money to Canadians and that improve the efficiency and effectiveness of our operations. However, the fiscal constraints associated with our small organization cannot be overlooked. The budget of $4.5 million allows for very little flexibility to reallocate resources and to really plan long term.

The current registry is 10 years old, and important investments are required to ensure that it remains up to date with rapidly evolving IT standards. The registry is vital for transparency. I will therefore continue to explore opportunities and, where necessary, make the funding requests to ensure that the registration system measures up to Canadians’ needs. The year ahead will be an exciting one for our team, and it is with great enthusiasm that we take on these priorities.

Mr. Chair and committee members, I thank you for your attention.

I welcome any questions you have.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Nathaniel Erskine-Smith]

Thank you very much, Ms. Bélanger.

For the first seven minutes, we have Ms. Fortier.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Commissioner. It's very nice to have you here today. I know you have been on the job since December. We met last year, and I'm very glad to see that things are going well.

Can you tell us a bit about the transition and your relationship with the previous commissioner? How was it settling in to your role? Did you encounter any problems when you took office?

[Nancy Bélanger]

I can tell you that the transition was organized incredibly well. When I arrived, the team welcomed me with open arms. I had five or six briefing books to read, which I did. The appointment of a new commissioner had been expected for a while, so the transition was really quite smooth. Thanks to the team in place and the former commissioner, the staff were ready and so was I. It was really quite fluid.

To be perfectly honest, I didn't encounter any major issues when I took office, nothing that posed a serious challenge. I did have to get to know the staff, but with 26 employees, it's not very hard to build a fairly good relationship with each person. I had to learn the internal workings of the office and the process. I have been working with officers of Parliament for a decade, so I know how investigations and the like work. I had to become familiar with the process.

On a personal level, my biggest challenge was the organizational structure. That's the aspect I grappled with the most. For instance, did I need a deputy commissioner now or in the future? There were people acting in positions, and I wasn't sure whether I should appoint them to those positions on a permanent basis. I really wanted our focus to be outreach and communications. Two people were in place.

As I said in my opening statement, I didn't see the need for a special adviser. That person is now responsible for the office's outreach and communications activities. That was my biggest challenge. Right now, I think we're in a good place to tackle the year ahead and work towards our goals.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I gather that, as a result of your review of priorities going forward, you will be focusing on outreach and communications.

How will you set about that? You had some ideas, but tell us, if you would, how your office plans to reach out to Canadians. Websites are well and good, but what approach are you going to take?

[Nancy Bélanger]

I agree with you about websites.

Finding a way to reach out to Canadians is important. It's something we're still thinking about, but I will tell you, in all sincerity, that, before we can reach out to Canadians, we have to reach out to parliamentarians, MPs and senators. We've seen many articles in the news that suggest people do not know what obligations lobbyists have when it comes to our office.

I therefore think we need to start with the basics. I sent you an email, and we received about a dozen replies. I've already started meeting with people individually. It's really about educating and doing basic outreach with lobbyists. We just updated our Twitter account. I will also be travelling to meet with as many people as possible, initially, during the first year.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much.

At the same time, we will likely have an opportunity to review the act soon. We'll know shortly.

Do you have any thoughts as to what the review should address? Have you given any thought to what you'd like to examine?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Absolutely.

I've already started working on it. I was asked in December whether I could be ready for the spring, so I knew it was coming and I've been working with that in mind. I'd like the review to address a few main themes.

How can the act be amended to improve transparency? How can the act be amended to improve and strengthen outreach and communications, as well as implementation?

Those are the three things I want to focus on.

In terms of transparency, we have a good piece of legislation. It's fairly sound, but there is some work to do. One area that could probably be improved is the “significant part” of duties rule, which we will discuss a bit later. That's definitely an element in need of improvement.

One provision requires that pre-arranged meetings be reported. That could be withdrawn. If people meet on the street, there is no requirement to file a return through the registry. Clearly, then, we can do certain things to improve transparency.

In terms of education and outreach, I'm considering whether we should make training mandatory for lobbyists.

From a compliance perspective, obviously, a range of sanctions are needed. The consequences for those who violate the act or code need to be revisited.

In a nutshell, those are my three priorities.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

What kind of process are you going to adopt, exactly?

You've got some ideas, but are you going to consult people or study certain cases? You have a smaller team, as you mentioned. Will you be adopting a process in order to conduct your review?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Yes. Knowing that it might get under way in the spring, I couldn't really commit to extensive consultations. I started with the basics, with the commissioner's recommendations from 2012. I started there and, then, I examined the issues as they've evolved since. I'm also really relying on my team.

I did nevertheless meet with a few lobby groups, and I let them know that your committee would soon be contacting me. I told them that, if they had any suggestions or recommendations, they shouldn't hesitate to send them to me—which is not to say that I will agree with them—or that they could contact the committee directly to make absolutely sure the information made its way to you.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

That's great. Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Nathaniel Erskine-Smith]

Mr. Kent.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Thank you, Commissioner, for your attendance today. It's always good to see you, and congratulations.

I think all of the MPs around the table appreciate the MOU between your office and that of the Ethics Commissioner. He appeared before us last week and we understand that you have two very separate mandates. The MOU is working mostly on outreach education, but there is a question with regard to the reports from one office without a counterbalancing report from the other.

Last year we had probably the most discussed—certainly the most discussed in Parliament—report from the Ethics Commissioner's office, the Trudeau report, but it involved activity by individuals covered by the Lobbying Act and your office.

I'm wondering what your thoughts might be when a significant report is issued by one office that there might not be a counterbalancing report explaining the other side of what happened in the investigation carried out, I assume, by both offices.

[Nancy Bélanger]

In a perfect world, all of our investigations would be done jointly, because, honestly, very often it's the flip side. I worked in that office for six years, and obviously, you can come out with two reports that will have opposite findings. Of course, in a perfect world, again, it would be great to do that.

The problem right now is our respective legislations don't allow us to do that. We cannot exchange information about investigations. They're all conducted in private and so I don't know about the investigations that Commissioner Dion is carrying out, and he doesn't know about mine, unless they've been made public.

The thing is, with the particular file that you are talking about, it's a jurisdiction issue. The Aga Khan is not a lobbyist, and so people may have expected to obtain a report, but a decision had been rendered—and I did not know this when I appeared in December—back in September by the previous commissioner that he did not meet the threshold of a lobbyist because he does not get paid. This is all in the public domain, and this particular decision right now is subject to judicial review at the Federal Court.

So although people expected a report, the decision had already been made that he was not a lobbyist, I read Commissioner Dawson's report, and the interactions with public office holders are with everybody. So he needs to look at the relationship that all of you have with everybody. I only look at lobbyists and in this particular case, there was no flip report to be made.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Certainly, but in this case, where there was so much public discussion even while the original investigation by the Ethics Commissioner was proceeding, as the new Ethics Commissioner arrived there was the question of unacceptable gifts not having to be registered on the gift registry. And, again, the commissioner was somewhat circumspect in discussing what an unacceptable gift might be or might have been in this particular case, but it suggests that if an unacceptable gift was eventually not received or was returned, it must have been offered by somebody, and if it was unacceptable on the ethics side, am I fair in assuming it would be unacceptable from your office's side?

[Nancy Bélanger]

However, my office has no jurisdiction over the Aga Khan, because he's not a lobbyist.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

But his foundation is.

[Nancy Bélanger]

His foundation is, but if you look at the report, there's no indication the foundation was involved in the gift-giving. Those were the facts we were working with.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Prior to the review of the act, and with regard to your reference that you will be working to implement some of the changes you believe can be made without legislative amendments, will you be making operational changes in the reporting of lobby situations by all of those present in a room, in a lobby situation, rather than the single individual who might officially report that lobby situation?

[Nancy Bélanger]

I don't know that I can, because it's in the regulations right now.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Is that a regulation that cannot be amended?

[Nancy Bélanger]

Yes. We cannot name everyone who's in the room. That is an amendment that should be made.

[Peter Kent, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Yes.

[Nancy Bélanger]

However, I don't have the flexibility to change that. It's in the regulations.