Evidence of meeting #113 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A video is available from Parliament.
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Why did you think that she would not be aware that you were not subject to the jurisdiction of her office?
10:50 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, AggregateIQ
We didn't know what she was aware and not aware of, so we just wanted to make that point.
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
It was important that she knew that you were not subject, and you knew that, obviously, because you wrote it. Right?
10:50 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, AggregateIQ
At the time of writing, I certainly knew that, yes.
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Yes, so you knew that. So when you were busy writing your programs.... Because you've said—and I'll quote you directly now, Mr. Silvester—“We're not data harvesters”. And you're not. I know you're not. Right? You said that. That's your statement.
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I know. You said, “We're not data harvesters”, and you're not. Right?
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Of course, because that was a true statement. However, it was an obfuscation and a misleading statement. You are people who write code to do data harvesting, but you don't do it. You don't worry about that, though, because you know very well the jurisdictions in which you operate, and you've made it very clear to those people that you're not subject to their laws.
10:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You'd better hope....
I'm not a lawyer, Mr. Silvester, and I don't know about how these jurisdictions work or don't work. You seem to know more than I do because you've made it very clear to them. What you've done is aided and abetted crimes in other jurisdictions, in other countries, and right now you may be benefiting from the fact that you live in Canada. You have done data spoofing. You've done data harvesting. You're aware of it. You've stated that you're not subject to the jurisdiction, and you have misled this committee time and again by obfuscating when they ask a direct question and you say things like, “We're not data harvesters”. No, you're not. You are people who help other people do data harvesting by writing their code.
10:55 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, AggregateIQ
Here's the thing. Data harvesting in the places where companies have used our software in order to help them gain insights into whatever they're collecting data for is not illegal. And with respect to the work that we did—
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You're aware of the Computer Misuse Act of the U.K., and it's not illegal?
10:55 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, AggregateIQ
But we haven't done data harvesting in the U.K.
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
You haven't done data harvesting anywhere. What you've done is written programs for other people. You can continue with this mincing of your words, but what you've done is written programs for other people who have done it. You have not done it. I know that. You have aided and abetted in a crime.
10:55 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, AggregateIQ
I disagree.
You've said a couple of things. One was phone number spoofing. The tool that we created is a phone-from-home phone bank for campaigns to have their volunteers phone potential supporters during the campaign in order to ask questions.
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I don't care what you've created and how you can explain it away. What you've done is put together programs to do things in other jurisdictions that are against the laws of those jurisdictions. Then you've stated very clearly that you don't care because you've stated it for everybody to know, to make sure, in case they didn't know, that you want to clarify that—and I'll repeat—“We are not subject to the jurisdiction of your office”.
10:55 a.m.
Chief Operating Officer, AggregateIQ
I have to caution. If I'm doing work in the U.S., and the work I'm doing in the U.S. is entirely legal in the U.S., and then later I'm doing some work in the U.K., and the work I'm doing in the U.K. is entirely legal in the U.K.—
10:55 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
But you don't need to worry about that. Why did you make—