Evidence of meeting #122 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was users.
A video is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
It's that data.
I know that you can say “when you collect data here...”, but I'm talking about the data that you don't delete when I say “don't follow me”, the data that you do keep anyway.
For that data that I want removed, can I get that done?
11:50 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
If you tell us that you want us to delete your account and delete the data associated with it, we do.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
It's not My Account either....
I want to be very specific here. You have data points on Frank Baylis, and I don't want you to track me at all, not going forward, backwards, sideways.
With regard to the data that you've kept on me, is there any way that I could...? Maybe you don't have the answer now, but could you go and talk to your technical people and ask, “How can I, through a choice, get rid of that?”
11:50 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
The reason I'm being specific about your account is that it's in that way that we know it's associated with an individual, however they call themselves.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I know what My Account is, and I know how I interact with My Account for what I see about what you track on me. There's a difference between what I see that you track on me and what you nonetheless continue to track.
I'm more concerned about what you continue to track regardless of what I say in My Account. That's what I'm asking about.
11:50 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
I'm trying to be responsive.
The data that we have that we associate with you as an individual is represented in My Account. Your decision to say “stop tracking me and delete this information” is exercised through My Account.
October 23rd, 2018 / 11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I know that. That allows me to know that you've deleted what I see that you've tracked on me. It does not—and you'll correct me if I'm wrong, and you don't need to answer now—force you to delete what you have and continue to collect elsewhere on me in your own servers.
This will specifically lead to my next question that you could look into too.
Over the years, your terms of use have changed. They've done so, in my estimation, to allow you to collect more and more data and to change the manner in which you do and don't collect data and what you do and don't have to delete when you so choose.
Could you give us, and I don't expect you to...a listing of all the times that the terms of use have changed, and how that has specifically enhanced your ability to capture data?
11:50 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
I can't give you an exact listing today, but my response to your question is that the changes in the terms of service and the privacy policy have been a reflection that our users have asked for more detail in how we collect data, and have asked for more detail in how they can access information about that data and how it's used.
The intent is clarity and transparency.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Are you saying you've never changed them to allow you more leeway, that none of the changes that have taken place have given Google more leeway to collect and maintain data?
11:50 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
There have been changes that have been put in place so that information we shared across Google services...so that we could provide better services to you, but that's been transparently communicated as well.
It's never a question of being duplicitous or trying to conceal the use of data. In fact, the changes have always erred toward being over-descriptive.
11:50 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Could you be specific on the changes that have given you more leeway?
My line of questioning is all to do with how much data you're collecting, when you actually have to delete it—and not simply from My Account but from your own servers—and how your terms of use have evolved to allow you to collect and maintain more data, irrespective of whether I ask that My Account delete it or not.
The last question I have, then, in this round has to do with boomerang routes. Are you familiar that?
11:55 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
I'm not familiar with the term. No.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Say I'm in Toronto, and I want to send another email or something to Toronto. Instead of going through the network in Toronto, it would be routed through the States.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Has Google ever put in any contract with any company that they must follow Google's routing? Essentially, when my data goes into the United States, all my data can be taken. I have no rights because I'm not an American citizen.
I have strong concerns that our data is being taken that way. From what I've been reading—and you can correct me if I'm wrong—sometimes Google contractually obligates people to route things through the States so they can collect data.
11:55 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
I can't speak to specific contracts that have that obligation. I know that there are contracts with our enterprise commercial users that try to stipulate that behaviour with their own data. That's a contract between entities. The underlying principle in that routing is based around the efficiency and the reliability of the network.
11:55 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
It boomerangs so that it's in multiple routes.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
My concern is about data protection. I'm asking a very specific question. You don't have to give the answer yet. Has Google imposed routing regulations such that it would not necessarily need to go through the States? For example, if I send an email within Toronto to within Toronto, I just need it to go that way. I don't need it to go through Chicago and bounce through Detroit and come back up. It's not efficient, but it's efficient if you want to collect data, because it takes my data to an area where I have no control over it.
I'm asking specifically: has Google put in place contracts that force such routing, that dictate the type of routing?
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
11:55 a.m.
Conservative
Peter Kent Conservative Thornhill, ON
Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Mr. McKay, for joining us again.
Let me say at the beginning that I consider the Google search engine to be the pre-eminent search engine in the world. I used it in my previous life as a journalist in the mid-1990s. I use it every day dozens of times, and I think the benefits of that Google search engine are in many ways invaluable.
In recent days, we have learned that there is a dark side to Google's commitments and policy positions, even in terms of a contradiction between your last appearance here and your appearance today. On May 10, you were asked:
Has there actually been any data breaches from Google's databases compared to what's happened with Facebook?
You replied as follows:
Not that we're aware of.
Would you like to correct that now? Were you aware of it at the time? We understand that Google sat for three years with the knowledge that there had been a serious breach of Google's data and that the actions taken earlier in March were simply to close down for fear of comparison with the Facebook breach.
11:55 a.m.
Head, Public Policy and Government Relations, Google Canada
I think you're talking about the announcement around Google Plus.
