Information & Ethics Committee on May 10th, 2016

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Good morning, colleagues. I call the meeting to order.

Welcome back. I hope everybody had a productive weekend. We're resuming our study of the Access to Information Act. This is meeting 13.

We are very pleased to have with us again, from the Treasury Board Secretariat, Ms. Jennifer Dawson, deputy chief information officer. From Public Services and Procurement Canada, we are pleased to have Sarah Paquet, the assistant deputy minister. Welcome. You have with you Mr. Simon Fradette—that's the best I can do en anglais, monsieur—director general of specialized services.

We'll go in the order in which I introduced you, and you'll have up to 10 minutes for your opening comments.

We have one hour, and then we'll proceed to the rounds of questioning, and we'll get as far as we can. I'll remind colleagues at the table that in the second hour we are going to return to the estimates. We'll have both the Information Commissioner and the Commissioner of Lobbying here, and then we'll have to proceed to the votes on those estimates.

Without any further ado, please go ahead, Ms. Dawson, for up to 10 minutes.

[Jennifer Dawson, Deputy Chief Information Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat]

I'd like to thank the committee for inviting me to talk about information management in the Government of Canada today.

Like financial and human resources, information represents a critical strategic asset to the Government of Canada.

Making high-quality, trustworthy information available to decision-makers helps to deliver effective programs and services. Departments can then be more responsive and accountable to Canadians.

The government also recognizes that information needs to be protected for such reasons as privacy, confidentiality and security. Deputy heads are responsible for the management and administration of information under the Financial Administration Act. Section 7 of the act provides the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat with the authority to issue management policy.

To help departments and agencies manage their information, the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat issues information management policy, directives, standards and guideline documents.

The policy on information management applies to 93 departments and agencies identified in schedules I, I.1, and II of the Financial Administration Act. This policy doesn't apply to crown corporations.

To support the implementation of the policy, the secretariat provides advice and guidance to departments and agencies. The secretariat also supports policy compliance and the Government of Canada information management community through outreach and engagement activities.

The Secretariat is charged with monitoring how closely departments follow the information management policy.

Information management is a shared responsibility among all Government of Canada employees. In 2007 TBS issued its directive on information management roles and responsibilities, which provides direction on managing information to them.

Other key partners in information management include Library and Archives Canada, mandated to preserve the documentary heritage of Canada for the benefit of present and future generations, and the Canada School of Public Service, with a role in developing and delivering a core learning program, which includes information management, for all public servants.

Finally, Public Services and Procurement Canada is responsible for providing common government-wide IT solutions.

My colleague Sarah Paquet, assistant deputy minister, will provide more information about the role of PSPC.

As the Government of Canada moves forward strengthening our information management practices, our enterprise-wide content management solution, GCDOCS, being delivered by PSPC, is going to be a critical enabler.

I will now let Ms. Paquet speak to you on the status of the GCDOCS program government-wide.

[Sarah Paquet, Assistant Deputy Minister, Public Services and Procurement Canada]

Good day, Mr. Chair. My name is Sarah Paquet and I am the Assistant Deputy Minister of the Integrated Services Branch of Public Services and Procurement Canada. As my colleague from the Treasury Board Secretariat has just explained, the GCDOCS system is a major transformation with respect to information management in the federal public service.

I would first like to describe my department's role. Public Services and Procurement Canada is responsible for providing GCDOCS to Government of Canada departments and agencies. Our department fulfills that role in collaboration with its partners, including the Treasury Board Secretariat—in particular Ms. Dawson's team—Shared Services Canada and the Canada School of Public Service.

Teamwork and collaboration with all our partners and clients are key elements of our identity. GCDOCS, which is a tool based on the business platform of the OpenText company, helps organizations to manage their information more effectively. It is a central system that organizes all of the information generated in daily operations in accordance with the established security level, including files, emails, images, videos, and more.

Using a single system is a best practice in this field, yielding many advantages. The organization's information is contained within a single database, which facilitates access to and production of records. Information is continually updated. Records conservation and disposal management is streamlined. Using the system considerably reduces the size of emails because only links are exchanged rather than attachments. The system allows users to work always with the latest version of a record, until the final version, always with the same link, without losing previous versions.

The GCDOCS tool has evolved considerably since last year. Consultation and collaboration with our clients has helped us to establish a cost model ensuring total funding for the system by client departments and agencies. In other words, it is a full cost recovery model. Moreover, through collaboration with Shared Services Canada, we have implemented a platform that will be able to be used by all our clients.

In December 2015, employees in my department were the first to use that platform, through a Shared Services Canada enterprise data centre. There are now 11 departments and agencies on the platform, comprising some 25,000 users. There are also some 100,000 people using previous versions of the tool.

In the coming years, we will be rolling out GCDOCS in various Government of Canada departments and agencies. To achieve that goal, our department, in collaboration with the Treasury Board Secretariat, has set up a governance structure with all clients and partners.

Like any computer system, GCDOCS is continually improving and new functionalities will be added to the current offer. For example, within a year, users will be able to easily use GCDOCS on their BlackBerrys and tablets.

In closing, I am pleased to say that the rollout of GCDOCS is on track. This tool is part of the work to overhaul the Access to Information Act, as it facilitates access to and production of records, reliability and conservation of information. It also makes it possible to search quickly and comprehensively for available information.

Thank you. We will be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you very much. We're going to have some interesting questions, I'm sure.

We'll start with Mr. Lightbound for seven minutes, please.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you for joining us today. I have some questions about GCDOCS.

First, if I am not mistaken, the system was created in 2008. Is that correct?

[Sarah Paquet]

The first contract for an information management system was in 1998. Then, as the system evolved, GCDOCS is now on the OpenText platform. OpenText bought the first company that was providing the service to the government in 2008. So actually we have had an information management system since 1998, but, since 2008, with the purchase by OpenText, the development of the solution has made a lot of progress—

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

OpenText came onto the scene in 2008. Why did we have to wait eight years to begin to see concrete results? Can you describe the process since 2008 specifically?

[Jennifer Dawson]

GCDOCS was adopted less quickly than expected because of a number of factors.

We shouldn't underestimate the significance of the change for departments moving from existing systems to a new system. It has taken a bit of time for some of them to rally to a new approach. At the same time, we've been introducing other modernization efforts across the Government of Canada. Some departments have been staging—whether they move to GCDOCS for records management first, or whether, for example, they adopt common systems for managing HR or managing finance—and onboarding for different systems at different times.

It was in 2010 that Treasury Board Secretariat introduced direction that all departments, when they were acquiring electronic documentation records management systems, should use the one procured by PWGSC, which was GCDOCS. What we're also seeing is an evolutionary process in that as departments move away from the existing systems, they move toward GCDOCS in a phased approach. What's happening at this point is that within the next three years we anticipate all of the departments that are served by Shared Services Canada will have moved to GCDOCS.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

That was my next question. We have—

You say that 11 departments and agencies have joined GCDOCS up to now, but the objective is for all to join, is it not?

[Sarah Paquet]

Currently, 72 departments and agencies are using two solutions. Stage 1 was the records, document and information management system, RDIMS. Now there is GCDOCS, which is a more advanced solution. In all, 72 departments and agencies use one or other of those solutions.

When we say that 11 departments and agencies are using it, we are talking about Shared Services Canada’s modern data centre. Others use it in their own data centres, which have been transferred to Shared Services Canada in the last three years. These are older data centres. Eleven departments and agencies are using the modern data centre, but, in all, there are 72 using an information management system, either stage one or stage two, which is GCDOCS.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Is the objective to make it possible for the 72 departments and agencies to adopt the more modern solution?

[Sarah Paquet]

Yes. We want all departments to use the more modern solution and the same platform. At that point, it really becomes a solution managed as a whole for the entire government.

There are two transitions here: using their own solution and their own data centres managed by Shared Services Canada, and the transition to the platform designed for the entire Government of Canada.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

What is the advantage of GCDOCS, the modern system that you are describing? What is the advantage of that solution compared to the more internal document management solution?

[Sarah Paquet]

The more modern version really is easier to use. It has evolved with the technology in recent years. It is easier for the user.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

My other question is actually about the evolution of the technology. It is evolving very quickly. How are things with OpenText in terms of following that technological evolution? Does that pose a challenge?

[Sarah Paquet]

The solution is evolving well. Currently, we are not fully using all of the solution’s functionalities. OpenText is continuing to develop the solution, which it provides to a number of partners around the world. We buy those functionalities as and when our client partners demonstrate the need for them.

Currently, the system can do more than we use it for. We really want to share the information with our partners in order to make sure that all departments can use the solution more and more and get the most out of it.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

How much time do I have left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

A minute and a half or so.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Okay.

I do not know whether you are familiar with information management models used by foreign governments. If so, how does GCDOCS compare to other models that our American neighbours or European countries have adopted?

[Jennifer Dawson]

I do not know exactly which systems other governments use, let alone other countries, but I can say that, according to Gartner Inc., a company that provides a lot of information on software programs and their performance, as well as on the companies, GCDOCS is one of the three most effective document management systems in the world. We chose a tool—

that is very highly ranked in terms of its capacity.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Do we have an idea of the cost associated with using such technology?

[Sarah Paquet]

This year, we calculate the amount that will be spent to implement the solution by our partners at $15 million. That includes the costs associated with the infrastructure, the maintenance and support costs related to the OpenText company, the costs associated with the operation and support of the programs.

The cost is divided up by user. At Public Services and Procurement Canada, we provide support services for the application and user support, in addition to the contract, the governance, the best practices and the support for preparation. That cost is $125 per user and $95 if an organization is not a partner in Shared Services Canada.

[Joël Lightbound, Liberal, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Blaine Calkins]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lightbound.

We now move to Mr. Kelly for seven minutes.

[Pat Kelly, Conservative, Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

At our last meeting, we found out that the $5 application fee for ATIP requests would be retained, while the research and printing fees would be eliminated. This policy was announced to us, rather than being the result of any conclusion or report that we might have drawn as a committee.

Nevertheless, given that we've heard from other witnesses that the $5 fee likely costs more to collect than it recoups for the Treasury Board, why was the decision made to go in the direction of retaining the fee and eliminating the printing and research fee? In terms of discouraging vexatious or frivolous types of requests, I would think that passing on the cost of frivolous or vexatious requests might be a more effective deterrent than the five dollars.