Information & Ethics Committee on May 28th, 2019

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

No you don't. You don't recognize that we have jurisdiction.

[Kevin Chan]

—as the Parliament of Canada knows.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

How can you say that to us with a straight face, Mr. Chan? How can you?

[Kevin Chan]

Because it is the truth, sir.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

So we have to take you to court to get you to recognize that we have jurisdiction to protect our citizens, after you sat on a breach that you knew about for three years and did nothing to tell us about because you didn't want to up-end your business model.

[Kevin Chan]

With respect to election integrity, we are going over and above the law—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm talking about the privacy rights of Canadians and the breach of our law that you were found guilty of. That's the question.

[Kevin Chan]

We can talk about that as well, sir, in the time remaining, if you will permit me.

As I said, we wanted to get to a resolution with the commissioner. He has decided to take us to court, which is of course the framework that's prescribed for him—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

He had to take you to court, because you wouldn't concede that we as legislators even have jurisdiction over our own citizens. That's not coming to a resolution. That's like, “Hey, Facebook, is it okay if we come and see, and if it's okay, we'll all work things out?” That is not how law works. Maybe that's how it works for Mr. Zuckerberg, but that's not how it works internationally, which is why we are here. It's because we have international legislators who are frustrated—

[Kevin Chan]

We have nothing but the utmost respect for—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

—by the lack of respect for international law.

[Kevin Chan]

We have the utmost respect for the law in Canada and for legal authority around the world.

[The Chair, Conservative, Bob Zimmer]

Thank you.

We'll go on next to Mr. Tong from Singapore.

[Edwin Tong, Senior Minister of State, Ministry of Law and Ministry of Health, Parliament of Singapore]

I have limited time, so I would appreciate it if you just focus on my questions and give the answers directly.

We've heard a lot about what you wish to do, who you are engaged with, who you wish to see and how you're going to work on your policies, but let's just see what actually appears and continues to appear on your platforms.

To do that and to save some time, I have put together a little handout that summarizes several cases, which I have no doubt you're familiar with. Just thumb through them quickly. These are all cases that were sensational. They all went viral quickly. They were probably amplified by trolls and bots—fake accounts. They incite fear, they cause disaffection and tensions, and they prey on divisive social fault lines: race, religion, immigration.

One key fact is that they're all false information as well, and all resulted in real world harm: physical injuries, deaths, riots, accentuating divisions and fault lines between religions and races, causing fear.

Just go to the very last page of the handout and look at Sri Lanka, April 2019. The leader of the Easter terrorist bombings in Sri Lanka had posted videos that were on your platforms—Facebook and YouTube—for at least six months prior to the bombing itself. In the videos, he says, “Non-Muslims and people who don't accept Muslims can be killed, along with women and children.” Separately, he says, “We can kill women and children with bombs. It is right.”

This is clear hate speech, is it not?

[Neil Potts]

It is hate speech.

[Edwin Tong]

And it's a breach of your own policies, isn't that correct?

[Neil Potts]

That would be a breach of our policies. That is correct, sir.

[Edwin Tong]

These passages, posted months prior to the Easter bombings, portend what was to come, and it happened, horrifically, in April, in the same fashion as this alleged priest, Mr. Zahran Hashim, said it would—by bombs, killing women and children—on your platforms.

Why? Why was it not removed?

[Neil Potts]

Thank you, Mr. Tong.

Just to quickly—

[Edwin Tong]

No. Please answer my question. Why was it not removed? You say it's a breach of your own policies. Why was it not removed in September 2018?

[Neil Potts]

When we're made aware of that content, we do remove it. If it is not reported or if we have not proactively identified it, then we would not remove it, because honestly we would not know that it exists.

I want to say that our hearts go out to those people in Sri Lanka and everywhere that you've mentioned here in your handout. Intercommunal ethnic violence is a horrific thing. We don't want our platform to be co-opted and used for these activities. In fact, we have taken aggressive action to combat this. We now have more than 30,000 people working in safety and security—

[Edwin Tong]

Mr. Potts, I don't need a speech on what you will be doing.

[Neil Potts]

I apologize.

[Edwin Tong]

How difficult is it to work out that the phrase, “We can kill women and children with bombs. It is right”, is hate speech? How difficult is it?

[Neil Potts]

That question is not hard, Mr. Tong. The question would be one of identifying the content. If we are not made aware that the content exists, either through a user report or our own proactive measures, then we would not know that this content is on the platform.