Evidence of meeting #8 for Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair (Ms. Rachael Harder (Lethbridge, CPC)) Conservative Rachael Thomas
I call the meeting to order.
Go ahead, Mr. Kurek.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
Thank you, Mr. Kurek.
Given that Mr. Kurek wishes to withdraw his motion on the business that we were in the midst of discussing, he needs unanimous consent to do so.
Do I have the unanimous consent of the committee to do that? I do.
(Motion withdrawn [See Minutes of Proceedings])
Madam Shanahan has the floor.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
Just one moment. I have a speakers list, and Madam Shanahan is next. However, if you're calling a point of order, I'm happy to entertain it.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
It's about the motion that Ms. Gaudreau gave us notice of yesterday. I want to introduce it today.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
I would like to give you the opportunity to do that, but unfortunately that is a point of order, and you are not able to move a motion on a point of order. However, I will add you to the speakers list after Ms. Shanahan, who is next. At that point in time you will be allowed to move a motion.
4:05 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
As I understand it, Mr. Kurek has asked that his motion be withdrawn and there is unanimous consent to do so. So this is not a point of order. We are actually just following the agenda of the meeting.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
That's correct. Mr. Fortin, if this isn't a point of order, I'm not able to acknowledge you right now, because Ms. Shanahan is next on my speaking list.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
Mr. Fortin, you are on the speakers list right after Ms. Shanahan, and then we'll have Mr. Green.
Mr. Gerretsen, do you have a point of order?
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON
It's a genuine point of order, Madam Chair. There's something wrong with my device. Could I get that fixed? I can't get amplification, interpretation or anything through it.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
That is a severe problem. Let's get that looked after for you.
Now we'll begin with Madam Shanahan, then go to Mr. Fortin and then Mr. Green.
Go ahead, Madam Shanahan.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
Thank you, Chair.
I would like to give notice of a motion at this time.
It reads, “That, in relation to the motion passed on July 22nd, to ensure the privacy and security of this personal information of Canadians, the committee adopt the following procedures for the handling of these documents:
“That the documents not be emailed to Members, staff or anyone else;
“That for the consideration of the documents during in-camera meetings, numbered, paper copies be provided to committee members by the Clerk at the start of any meeting at which they will be considered, and that they be returned to the clerk at the end of the meeting;
“That no staff and no mobile or electronic devices be allowed for the duration of the in camera meeting;
“That the documents be held in the Clerk's office, and that outside of in-camera committee meetings, Members may only view the documents in the Clerk's office and that no mobile or electronic devices may be in the room when the documents are being reviewed.”
We have the same motion in French.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Yesterday, Ms. Gaudreau submitted a notice of motion, a motion that we would like to introduce today, given the current situation. The motion reads as follows:In view of the admissions of the Minister of Finance to having obtained remuneration from 'WE Charity' and to having placed himself in a conflict of interest, the committee requests his immediate resignation.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
Thank you.
This motion having been moved, we now move into debate on it.
Go ahead, Mr. Green.
4:10 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I feel the need to state what I feel to be the obvious. As a committee that hasn't had Mr. Morneau before us in any capacity, it would be premature at this point for us to call on his resignation, when it's quite within the political rights of the leaders of any party to make those kinds of statements, or any individual members. I just think that as a committee that hasn't had the opportunity to fully explore this with Mr. Morneau, we are ending on a conclusion that we haven't actually explored as a committee. I think it's a bit premature. I won't be able to support this motion at the moment.
4:10 p.m.
Bloc
Rhéal Fortin Bloc Rivière-du-Nord, QC
Madam Chair, I understand the reservations that my colleague is expressing here at the table, but I would say that the current situation is rather unusual.
I know that we have not yet heard from Mr. Morneau. I am anxious to hear from him as well, because I will have some important questions for him. Nevertheless, a number of facts have already been established and are public, and they cannot be ignored. Mr. Morneau has not said that he did not commit the acts of which he is accused. He said that he did commit them, that he placed himself in a conflict of interest at the meeting where he decided to vote in favour of a contract for WE Charity, and that he apologized for it.
Once that is admitted and the minister has apologized—I really want us to accept the apology—there is a practical consequence. We have an admission of serious misconduct, and it is not premature for the committee to adopt the resolution I am proposing to you this afternoon. I invite you to support it.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Brenda Shanahan Liberal Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC
On the motion that is before us, I feel it's my duty to point out that it's a motion that precludes the conclusion to the study we are going to be undertaking. As such, I cannot support it.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rachael Thomas
Thank you.
Is there anyone else wishing to speak?
Go ahead, Mr. Barrett.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON
With respect to the motion, yesterday we did hear the finance minister's acknowledgement of receiving in excess of $40,000 in sponsored travel or as a gift from a third party agency, and we heard that he did repay that yesterday before he gave his testimony at the finance committee. In and of itself, the travel as well as the failure to disclose are multiple areas on which I have written to the Ethics Commissioner to ask for an examination of those facts.
The problem we're faced with as parliamentarians is that we have a member of cabinet who places himself in situations that make it impossible for me to give him the benefit of the doubt, with his having been found guilty of breaking the act on a previous occasion, and on this occasion, in my opinion, giving a cavalier response to a very serious situation.
In the context of the COVID-19 pandemic and on a number of occasions, all parties have given unanimous consent in the House to support unbelievable amounts of money, incredible measures in support of Canadians during the pandemic. This has to be done in the context of having confidence in the people who are executing these actions. The integrity of the institutions and the integrity of the offices we occupy have to be preserved. The occupants of these cabinet positions are there temporarily. They will be replaced by someone else. That next person may be from the same party or another party, and then that person too will be replaced. They are caretakers and they responsible for ensuring the public's confidence.
We have a large sum of money in that $40,000 figure that was not paid by the minister when he was travelling. The organization he was travelling with said last night that the reason it offered these trips was to showcase its work and to solicit support.
Given the lack of judgment in this situation, as unfortunate as it may be, and as contrite as the minister might be, at this time when we're almost certainly going to be back in the House looking for unanimous consent on support for Canadians, when the situation is viewed through that lens, I don't have confidence in the Minister of Finance. I will be supporting this motion.
