Information & Ethics Committee on Dec. 7th, 2020

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much.

My question is for the NATIONAL representatives.

You have a great deal of experience with members from all political parties. Are you also requiring an apology from one of the committee members?

I want to give you the chance to say whether the publicity surrounding the WE Charity and the fact that you worked with the charity has affected your business. Do you expect an apology?

I'm still very bothered by the attacks on companies that carry out their work properly.

[Martin Daraiche]

Thank you, Ms. Shanahan.

The committee gave us the opportunity to clarify the true nature of our mandate. For us, that's what matters today.

We're able to clarify the nature of our work. We don't expect an apology from any member or members of Parliament.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, colleagues.

Now, to clear up the legalities of the request I made, Monsieur Gourde, you mentioned the documents, so now you will need to move a motion in that regard.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to move a motion.

That the committee request a copy of the contract and mandate of NATIONAL Public Relations, in addition to any communications between NATIONAL Public Relations, the federal government and the WE Organization. That these documents be submitted to the committee by Friday, December 11, 2020 and that these documents be reviewed in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

In respect to documents, Monsieur Gourde, just to be clear, we're talking about any contracts with WE. Are you talking about communications as well?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

No, I'm just talking about the mandate.

There's the contract and the mandate. They're two separate things. The mandate is usually attached to the contract.

I'd like to have these documents by Friday, if possible.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

There is a motion for that, colleagues. Is there any objection?

Madam Shanahan.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, I really regret that the motion has come to the floor in this way. I think we were just trying to clarify that at any time MPs can request additional information and documents from witnesses. I really don't see the necessity for this motion at this time. I think the whole issue around the confidential information, personal information and business information as well is one that needs to be discussed further.

I would suggest that the member come back with a motion that he's had time to put together that is clearer. I think that's something we would be prepared to look at, but we're already 30 minutes past this meeting. You called for an in camera committee meeting. I don't see the necessity for this motion at this time.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Go ahead, Mr. Dong.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

My points are along the same line. First of all, I was a bit confused by that order by the chair. It sounded like we were subpoenaing a document that was refused to be provided by the one of the witnesses. I didn't hear a clear no. I don't even know if the witness was given the chance to think over the request and see what they are obligated to do or what they are not obligated to do. I don't think it's fair to the witness to make that determination without even knowing the power of this committee.

I would suggest, if I may, that the clerk make an official request for the document to the witness and give the witness a chance to respond after understanding the request. Then, if the answer is no, we can consider an official motion on whether or not we would subpoena that document.

I think that's a better way to go for it, but I'm suggesting this as a permanent member of this committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would normally take my Liberal colleagues' thoughts and really reflect on them, but I have seen nothing but obstruction from them since the get-go. Every time something comes forward, they find ways of obstructing, trying to stop it and slow it down.

It was a fairly straightforward request. These requests are made all the time at our committee. My understanding is that the witness was ready to present those documents, so I don't think we need to have the Liberals jumping in front and trying to stop us from seeing this.

We will see it in camera. This is about government spending. It's a pretty straightforward request. You asked the witness and my understanding is that the witness agreed, so I think we should move on.

[Patricia Lattanzio, Liberal, Saint-Léonard—Saint-Michel, QC]

I have a point of clarification, Mr. Chair.

With regard to the motion that was put forward by the opposite member, are we to understand that if there is confidential information that is included in those contracts, witnesses must abide by the motion? How do we treat a contract or document that would contain confidential information? That would be my question for my opposite member.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Of course, the committee treats all inbound documents with the greatest of care. Any trade secrets would be protected. As Mr. Angus said, they would be viewed in camera in the clerk's office.

Now we go on to Mr. Fergus and then Madame Gaudreau because I know Madame Gaudreau has indicated that she would like to speak.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I have nothing further to add that wasn't already added by my colleagues, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay.

Madame Gaudreau.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

I want to say that I attended all the meetings before the prorogation. The goal is to shed light, especially when there's nothing to hide.

I can see that we won't have enough time to complete our work. We'll already be receiving, perhaps in the next few minutes, the contract to wrap up the end of the year. I urge my colleagues to understand that it's perfectly legitimate to make this request and to handle the request properly, as we've done with all the Speakers' Spotlight documents.

I don't see why the time would be extended. Instead, we should move forward while ensuring respect for each one of us.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Madame Gaudreau.

Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, this is the first time I have spoken in this meeting. It's quite an interesting meeting.

Mr. Perelmuter, again, I join my colleagues in apologizing in terms of what you and your family have had to endure these past few months. It's quite unfortunate, the environment sometimes via social media and what individuals may or may not say. The indirect consequences and the direct consequences I think we need to think about as individuals across society. I do wish to apologize as a member of Parliament and as someone who also has a family at home. I can only imagine what you and your loved ones were going through during that time.

Mr. Chair, could we get some sort of text for the motion?

I've heard it stated, but if we could get some sort of text or anything, that would be great. I'll just stop right there.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Gourde, do you want to take a moment to type up your motion and send it over to the clerk?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Then we can distribute it.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

No problem, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We'll suspend, yes.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Colleagues, we're back in session, but don't be alarmed. I just want to be able to excuse the witnesses. Then we're going to suspend again until we get all clear on the language.

Mr. Daraiche, Madam Benoit and Mr. Perelmuter, on behalf of the committee, I want to give you our sincere apology for any of the intended consequences that came from any actions of the committee members with regard to the obligations of our office here at the committee. I'm certain that all committee members feel that way.

I also want to thank you for the time that you invested today in order to answer questions.

We will excuse you now, and we will continue our debate without having to take up any more of your time.