Information & Ethics Committee on March 29th, 2021

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Rodriguez, in your experience, is it common for unsolicited program ideas or proposals to be sent to the government? I imagine it does happen.

Is it inappropriate for the government to consider and act on such proposals?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

That is definitely not inappropriate, nor is it uncommon, especially during a pandemic.

In a pandemic, we have to think about and reflect on things differently, act much quicker than usual and create programs from nothing. On top of that, we have to be there for our seniors, for our workers, for our families, for our businesses and for those who have lost their jobs.

That is what the government has done. In our many interactions, organizations, associations, unions, businesses and members of Parliament have suggested many ideas. The important thing is that everything is done in accordance with official standards.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

We're going to turn now to Mr. Gourde for the next five minutes.

Mr. Gourde, go ahead, please.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank Minister Rodriguez for being here.

Minister, I would like to know one thing about this whole saga. From the beginning, on other words from when the contracts were first awarded, until the end, were you involved in the process surrounding the WE Charity file?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Never.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

When the program was being set up, did you speak with cabinet ministers about whether or not it was a good idea?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I cannot speak to what is discussed in cabinet.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Without going into any details, you can tell me whether or not it was ever discussed. You probably talked about it when you were discussing the programs you were going to put in place....

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I did raise some issues outside of cabinet. Out of respect for cabinet, I will never refer to what is discussed there.

The question I asked was about WE Charity's ability to provide services in French. I felt it was essential that they be able to provide services in both official languages, and the organization replied that it could.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Last year in the House, we asked for greater investments in the Canada summer jobs program rather than this program. We were told that the government would look into it. In the end, that didn't happen.

It would have been a good idea to hire students. Canadian businesses wanted to hire employees, but we had to turn them down because there wasn't enough money in the program. If we had invested a few tens of millions of dollars more, all the employers who wanted to hire students could have done so. That also would have been a good idea.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

We can always look back and say we should have done this or that. I understand your point of view, Mr. Gourde.

The government was acting in good faith and did everything it could to help Canadians, including students. The program we're talking about today was part of a series of measures that included doubling student grants and creating the Canada emergency student benefit, for example.

You know as well as I do that students are among those who have suffered the most. What do they do between sessions? They work in bars and restaurants, at festivals....

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

We get that, Mr. Minister.

Earlier, you said you listened to everyone's recommendations. The Conservatives asked the government to put more money into Canada summer jobs. You had plenty of time to do that two months before the end of the program. Canada summer jobs was doling out money in August even. We asked about it in the House in May and June.

Was it a bad idea because it was the Conservatives' idea? If the Liberals had suggested it, would it have been a good idea?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Mr. Gourde, you know we respect everyone's ideas.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Come on, Mr. Minister. We begged the government to invest the money in the right place to give students a chance to work instead of stay home. Last summer, 100,000 more students could have worked. Businesses in my riding were ready to hire 15 students if Canada summer jobs had given them the opportunity. Lack of funds meant they could hire only two or three students.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You can always look back and say it would have been better to do this or that. Maybe that's the case, Mr. Gourde.

Honestly, we listen to all ideas. In fact, as the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, I know that a number of the programs we put in place were influenced by ideas from the Conservative Party, the NDP or the Bloc Québécois. For quite a while there, we decided to work across party lines and help Canadians. All Canadians benefited as a result.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I'm happy to hear that, Mr. Minister.

The Canada summer jobs program is still short of cash. We are looking at these files, and we can see that there's still a lot more money needed. There's still time before the budget is tabled.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Yes—

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

That's an idea for you.

If you really want to help students, you can up funding for the Canada summer jobs program for students. That will help them acquire truly enriching work experience rather than languish at home.

We can't let students go a second summer without work. Give all Canadian employers who want to hire students the money to do it. Students will gain priceless experience.

Will you do that?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You're right that we should always do more for students. They are our future.

Maybe you can tell your colleagues that Bill C-14 includes concrete measures to help students. If your colleagues could pass that bill quickly, that would help everyone.

I'd like to ask you to do that.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Mr. Minister, you can't tell us anything about the process, and you can't shed any light on everything we've been trying to understand since this whole saga began. With all due respect, why did you come testify before this committee for three hours?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

As I've said, I didn't work on drafting the bill, which makes sense because that's up to the minister responsible. We were all looped in afterward. The reason I'm here today is the principle of ministerial responsibility, a principle that the Conservatives quite rightly upheld, a principle that we also uphold and that I hope you will too.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

We uphold it, but we sent ministers who were able to answer questions. You seem to know absolutely nothing about this file.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I've been answering your questions for three hours, Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Well, it's actually been two or three minutes for my questions. I wish I could talk to you for three hours. That would be really interesting.