Information & Ethics Committee on June 7th, 2021

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

As I said earlier, the body of tools that we have to deal with this issue.... In the physical world, it's very simple. I think you and I can agree on that. It's not so simple to deal with these criminal offences in the virtual world—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I guess I just have to interrupt you because—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

It's like that all around the world, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I know, but we're not talking about buddy in his basement doing revenge porn on his girlfriend. We're talking about a well-known company that's established in Montreal and that the RCMP says is one of its voluntary partners. We're talking about a company that is established. We're not talking about idiots making online hate comments.

If we have a law in the land and your government is not willing to use it against a company that breaks that law, I don't see how we tell survivors, “Don't worry, a regulator is going to make those guys come to heel.” How do we tell them that, if the laws of the land aren't going to be applied?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I think I understand your point, and I would like to respond that it's not just about the regulator. It's going to be about an entire new ecosystem to help us deal with these harms online in a way that we can't right now. The regulator is but one component of that. It's not the entirety of the system we want to propose.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

We'll turn to Mr. Viersen now for the next round.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

Have you watched any of the testimony that we heard from the victims before this committee?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Not in front of this committee.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

All right. Many of them talked about how non-consensual videos of them were put up and, overnight, had millions of views. How do you intend to combat that with a 24-hour takedown notice?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Well, as stated in my mandate letter, once an illegal publication is flagged, companies will have 24 hours to take it down. Instead of the victims having to try to deal with these companies, it's going to be the Government of Canada that's going to work to ensure that they remove that. If they don't, then there will be consequences for these companies.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What's the prevention piece of this plan, though? How are we going to prevent these images from ending up on the Internet in the first place?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I think you're asking me if we have a magic wand to prevent crime. We don't, and I believe no government—

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

We take steps in all other areas of life to prevent crime.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

We will as well, by investing in more education so Canadians better understand these issues regarding the harms that these publications can have online. We will work to ensure that once posted they're removed as quickly as possible.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

There's no prevention piece. It's not going to be forthcoming in that bill that we—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

That's not what I said. Earlier, I spoke about the digital citizen initiative, which our government has been funding for the last two years to work with victims' organizations, academic groups and non-governmental organizations on these very issues.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

All right. What steps would be taken to ensure that a regulator would be able to access the folks most affected by this problem—teenage girls and young adult women—seeing as they're not likely to be able to navigate complex bureaucracy?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

It won't be complex.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What enforcement mechanisms is this supposed regulator going to use?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Again, I'm happy to discuss the objectives of the legislation with you. I would be happy to come back to discuss the details of the legislation once it is tabled.

[Arnold Viersen, Conservative, Peace River—Westlock, AB]

What about cases in which the victim is Canadian but the site isn't necessarily Canadian?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I'm happy to repeat, but that's the answer I gave to your colleague, Madame Gaudreau.

The purpose of the legislation is that whether the company is Canadian, its servers are in Canada, its headquarters are in Canada or it's registered in Canada or elsewhere, if it's broadcasting images or videos in Canada, then the legislation will apply to that company.

Mr. Chair and Madam Clerk, I am being told that I must connect to the House of Commons debate five minutes before noon, which would have been a minute ago, I suppose. I'm in your hands, but I must get ready for another debate in the House of Commons.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Okay, Minister. We thought we had you till noon, but we appreciate that we're all in the same boat, so we'll bid you goodbye. Thank you so much for joining us this morning.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.