Information & Ethics Committee on July 12th, 2021

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

Mr. Chair, from a parliamentary language standpoint, “to pull a fast one”.... I think everybody around the table here knows that the Liberals want to refer this matter to the Board of Internal Economy because there are five Liberal members over there. There is the chair. All have paid Pitfield taxpayers' dollars for these services.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

We are getting into debate, but—

[Colin Carrie, Conservative, Oshawa, ON]

I find that unparliamentary. We're just doing our job.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

—I encourage Mr. Dong to maintain parliamentary language during his debate.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

As I said, I haven't seen the signal, so I probably haven't hit the eight-minute mark. I'll wrap up soon.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

I'm not signalling.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

You know the time. Okay. Thank you, Chair. I appreciate the break.

You know what? That was my final point. What I see here today is the Conservatives trying to create something out of nothing, again on the taxpayers' back. I just want to remind everybody that every minute we spend here is quite a privilege to me, but at the same time I'm very mindful of the supportive work that is required for this committee.

With that, I'll cede the floor. I hear that the Conservative member, Mr. Barrett, is willing to support the amendment and say that we're transparent, that we're clean. I'd be happy to—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

No, I don't support the amendment.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were willing to testify in front of the committee and therefore willing to support the amendment.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

No.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

You see how sometimes—

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Okay, colleagues, just direct your comments through the chair.

Mr. Dong, were you finished or...?

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I'm about to wrap up.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Okay.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

You can see how assumptions can sometimes be misinterpreted. I interpreted it, certainly, as Mr. Barrett being willing to support the amendment.

To all my opposition colleagues, I hope you would consider supporting the amendment. If indeed at this committee we're doing a service to Canadians to make sure that members are performing according to standards, why don't we open it up to all? Why are we focusing only on Liberal members?

I take great offence. In the WE Charity study, you can say that you targeted the Prime Minister, his family, private companies and civil servants. Now with this motion, I think the original intent is to target Liberal MPs—incumbents, in your words—on the eve of an election.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

Mr. Boulerice is next.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Mr. Chair, despite the Liberal members' claims that they want the committee to use its time wisely and that they don't want to talk and talk, it's obvious that they continue to go on and on. We are almost out of time, Mr. Chair.

I think Mrs. Shanahan's amendment has merit in that I agree with the substance and overall intent. The Board of Internal Economy can be an effective mechanism, but it can also be a black hole. If you get too close, it sucks you in and you're never to be seen from again.

Mainly, I think the amendment is premature. I want to come back to the spirit of the original motion. Let's hear from the witnesses, ask questions and do some checking. Then, if the matter needs to be referred to the Board of Internal Economy, we can make that informed decision.

Mr. Fergus said some compelling things earlier. He said that the databases had to be stand-alone systems, that they did not communicate with one another. Unfortunately, we have to take his word for it now, so let's bring the people who have the information before the committee, let's look into the situation and let's do our job. If it turns out we need to involve the Board of Internal Economy, we can do so at that point.

Although I agree with the substance of the amendment, I feel to adopt it now would be to get ahead of ourselves.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Thank you.

Mrs. Shanahan, you have the floor again.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Did Madame Gaudreau have her...?

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Had you—

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

[Inaudible—Editor] I'm waiting.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Ms. Gaudreau can have the floor, but I would like to go after her.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Oh, pardon me.

Please go ahead, Madame Gaudreau.

[Marie-Hélène Gaudreau, Bloc, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Chair, it's one o'clock. What happens next? Do we keep going a bit longer? I have some motions. I don't need 12 or 22 minutes. I can be extremely quick about it, but I have some comments afterwards.

[The Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

Okay.

I'm not sensing that anybody wants to end the meeting yet. I mean, there may be a desire to end it after a certain number of things, but there seems to be an inclination to continue to grow the speaking list. I have the obligation to allow for members to continue to speak until they no longer want to speak.

I have Mrs. Shanahan and Mr. MacKinnon on the speaking list, and Madame Gaudreau, and Mr. Fergus apparently wants to get back on the list.