Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay.

I have meditated on this for the past four minutes, because I hesitate to ever enter into a debate, but since it's a process of the committee management, I will say that our clerk has done some great work. We've communicated with the organization. The present motion that's on the table right now would not be onerous to them, as they have stated to us that they're ready and prepared to send those documents.

You may remember, Mr. Fergus, that I had raised that as a concern myself. I did not want to have an organization's reputation besmirched because we set too tight a timeline. But they have prepared the documents now and are ready to send them, should this motion pass. Certainly we can go ahead with the amendment, as you've asked for it to be tabled, but I thought it was right if I gave that information to the committee in that regard.

Go ahead, Mr. Fergus.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

I appreciate that you and the clerk took that forward step, Mr. Chair. I'll still move the amendment, but I'll be very pleased to see them satisfy the conditions of that amendment because they can do it within 24 hours. That's great.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay.

An amendment to the main motion has been moved with regard to the time frame in which the Speakers' Spotlight would have to deliver the documents to our committee. It would be seven days rather than 24 hours.

I believe it was 24 hours, Madam Clerk. Am I correct? Okay.

That's the debate on the floor at the present time.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

A point of order, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Madam Shanahan, did you want to get on the speakers list?

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Yes, that's right. It's a new speakers list, is it?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

No, we are continuing on with the same list. It's just that now those who are on the list would have to be apprised of the fact that they are now speaking to the amendment rather than the main motion. If they want to withdraw their names, they can certainly do that.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Understood.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Sorbara.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, can we get the exact wording of the amendment?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

As I've received it, in the main motion we're simply removing 24 hours for them to surrender the documents to the committee and replacing that with seven days.

[Greg Fergus, Liberal, Hull—Aylmer, QC]

Actually, it's “up to” seven days.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Fergus, for that correction. I appreciate that.

Mr. Sorbara.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Chair, can you repeat the speaking order just for my memory please?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Sure. It's yourself, Mr. Dong, Mr. Angus, Mr. Warkentin, Madame Lattanzio, Madame Shanahan, and Madame Gaudreau.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

I just want to check one thing. Can we can just get clarification from the clerk if up to seven days is sufficient time. You had mentioned earlier, and I just want to make sure I understand correctly, that there is no issue within the 24-hour period if that's within the clerk and the analysts' time frame as well. It is not too onerous?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

No, I made it very clear that they already have them prepared. The clerk and I have gone through that work. In fact, she's done most of the work really. They are ready to be surrendered to us at a moment's notice. I don't think I've overstated it by saying what format they're in. They're in an electronic format.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

I just wish to applaud the researchers' ability to get all of the information available to us. That's great work and great due diligence. I will stop there and surrender my time to the others who are to speak on this amendment.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We'll move to Mr. Dong.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Just for myself and other members of the committee, I want to read the part that we're currently amending: “that these documents shall be provided to the Clerk of the Committee within up to seven days of the adoption of this motion; and that the documents be reviewed in camera.”

I see some nodding heads. I assume that's how the amended text would read. If that's the case I think it's a good amendment. We're not prescribing seven days to the organization to submit these documents. If the documents are readily available and they see some of the information that's already been posted by various sources.... If they're readily available, I'd love to see them should the motion be adopted by the committee, and to my mind the 24 hours is a tight timeline. I'm happy to hear that the organization is prepared to meet that deadline, but I think that by giving them the comfort of knowing that there are seven days, we'll be assured that the documents they submit will be whole and everything required by this committee.

I think it's a sound amendment. I'm willing to support it. I think seven days is reasonable, but if these documents are available and ready for the members' eyes should this motion be adopted, then let's see them.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dong.

Also, to be clear to all committee members, when these documents are surrendered to the clerk, of course the formatting will have to be verified. They will have to be presented to the committee in both official languages. That's how we deal with documents. When the clerk is in receipt of them, it doesn't necessarily mean that immediately we'll have access to them. It will take some time for that to happen.

We'll now move on to Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for your intervention on the availability of these documents, because I'm certainly someone who believes we have to give everyone fair process in a committee. We are not quite a court of law, but if we overstep our powers, it can have very negative consequences for people who don't have the power to challenge us. So we have to be judicious.

The fact that these documents were requested in the summer and efforts were made to gather those documents before prorogation and the organization is ready to present them means that I don't think this amendment is necessary, though I normally would have thought it would be a very reasonable one. If the documents are ready, I think we should vote on the amendment, and then we can get on to other business.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

We do have four other speakers, but I will canvas the committee and see if they want to go to a vote on the amendment.

No. There is no consensus.

We will go to Mr. Warkentin.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

Mr. Chair, these documents were supposed to be released to the committee by August 19. That had been the request of this committee. The motion had been passed. Obviously, you now know that the organization is prepared to release those documents because they were just hours away from giving them to the committee in any event. Of course, that was before the Prime Minister prorogued Parliament simply to ensure the these documents would never see the light of day.

Of course, as we see the Liberals desperately trying to filibuster this committee as well as use other mechanisms to delay these documents from being seen by the committee, obviously there is a bombshell included in these documents, and so I think it's important that we move expeditiously to a vote now. Having seen all of their arguments reduced to simple nonsense. I would suggest that we move not only to vote on this amendment but on the main motion as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I don't see any consensus, Mr. Warkentin.

We will move on to the next speaker, Madame Lattanzio.

Just to review the speakers list, we have Madame Lattanzio, Madame Shanahan, Madame Gaudreau and Mr. Dong on the list right now.

Madame Lattanzio.