Information & Ethics Committee on Oct. 26th, 2020

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dong.

Now, Madame Shanahan, Madame Vignola, and as soon as we get clarification, it will be Mr. Housefather.

Do you have that?

It is Madame Shanahan, Madame Vignola and Mr. Housefather.

Go ahead, Madame Shanahan.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much, Chair, for giving me an opportunity to speak just a little bit to why I brought forward this amendment.

Yes, as my colleague mentioned, these measures were passed at our summer session. I was very pleased and heartened to see, although I don't think it was unanimous—someone can correct me if I am wrong—that generally there was agreement that these were important measures to be taken. I remind fellow committee members that we were in the same pandemic situation, with travel restrictions and so on, but we were all meeting in person, in Ottawa, for the committee meetings as they were being called. I think we certainly all understood how it was important to do so. We made ourselves available.

We now have a little bit more flexibility, but indeed, as my colleague mentioned, we are each travelling to Ottawa to fulfill our duties. I think in terms of safeguarding the privacy and confidentiality of documents in the way that it has been done—certainly in the time that I've been here, and from the research I've done—those are accepted and well-articulated measures that our staff have been well able to organize, just as they have on so many other fronts, as we continue to operate during this pandemic.

I welcome the remarks of colleagues. I am hoping that we will, again, pass these measures as an amendment to the motion on the floor.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Madame Shanahan.

Madame Vignola.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

This motion was passed, but not unanimously, during the summer period when we were affected by the pandemic.

Traveling to the clerk's office in Ottawa to view documents can indeed be a challenge for many of us. I'm thinking particularly of our colleagues whose ridings are in remote areas. Round trips can result in repetitive quarantines.

I don't want to propose an amendment, just something to think about. We trust each other. Could we consider numbered, registered mailings and a time limit for consultation? This could be an option.

However, what is important? We have to protect ourselves, but we also need to have quick access to the documents to be able to consult them. We could coordinate to consult them at a given time while respecting distancing measures, which would avoid putting people in danger. That's another option. We are responsible adults, and we can organize ourselves. The important thing is to have access to these documents while respecting everyone's privacy.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Ms. Vignola.

We now go on to Mr. Housefather.

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Mount Royal, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the opportunity to sit in again on the ethics committee.

I just want to say that I had argued at the previous meeting that I thought it was reasonable for the committee to see the documents related to the Prime Minister and Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, and not Alexandre Trudeau and Margaret Trudeau, so I do appreciate the amendment by Mr. Angus. I do appreciate the care with which the committee has now treated the documents.

I don't want to prolong any discussion on this amendment, which I support, but I do also agree with what Madame Vignola and Mr. Angus had said with respect to it. I don't want to prolong debate by proposing further amendments, but maybe there are other ways. For example, I do believe that members are allowed to have substitutes, and I would assume that any member is allowed to have a substitute in Ottawa to go to search documents in the clerk's office. As lawyers, we used to do due diligences with very secret documents, and there was a way to have a viewing on a website, where we couldn't copy or take screenshots of the document, etc. Maybe at a future date the committee will figure that out with the clerk and provide more access to members from northern Manitoba or regions of Quebec, which are harder to get to Ottawa from.

I think that's possible, but in the meantime I support the motion and I don't want to prolong getting to a vote on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, colleagues. We've exhausted our speakers list, so we'll move on to a vote on the amendment as presented by Madame Shanahan.

(Amendment agreed to: yeas 7; nays 3 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

The amendment is carried.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, seeing that it's two minutes to one o'clock, can you clarify for us whether we are going to adjourn today's meeting at one o'clock, or going past it?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's up to the committee. I'm here to serve the committee, Mr. Dong. I actually wanted to canvass the committee right now. We've now had, by my count and more accurately by that of the clerk, who is more observant than I am, three amendments to the motion. We would be debating the motion as amended now. I have two speakers on the list right now, so it's up to the committee if you'd like me to adjourn right now, at our scheduled time, or continue.

I see a desire for the committee to continue, so I'll move to the next speaker.

Mr. Warkentin.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Grande Prairie—Mackenzie, AB]

I think that now having amended this motion extensively, having addressed what the Liberals have said are their concerns about the motion, I think it would be prudent for us to proceed to a vote. Obviously, anything other than moving to a vote would just extend the time frames by which this committee would be delayed in receiving those documents. Having now given in to the Liberal's request for a seven-day extension, I would request that we move to a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Colleagues, I'm just taking a look at the screen—

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I have a point of order.

I'm sorry, but there is no more interpretation. I understand what Mr. Warkentin said, but I would like to hear it in my mother tongue. I can't hear anything anymore.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I can hear the interpretation here.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I turned on the French channel, in my language.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I'm not getting any translation.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

I can hear the interpretation very well, so maybe my colleague is having a computer problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Madame Vignola, go ahead and repeat what your concern was.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The interpretation just came back on.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Let me canvass the committee again. Do you want to move to a vote on the main motion as amended?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

It looks as if we have consensus. Madam Clerk, would you do the honours then, please, for a recorded vote.

(Motion as amended negatived: nays 5; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

I move that we adjourn now, unless there's some other wish. It's 1:03 p.m.

Seeing none, we are adjourned.