Information & Ethics Committee on March 21st, 2024

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

There are a number of intermediaries. I would—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

What is the number?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I would very much like clarification of the question, or if my CIO has anything he wants to add....

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

The question is very straightforward. We've seen—and I am certain you're aware of the issue—companies that are skimming 25% and 30% off multi-million-dollar government contracts. These are two-man operations like GC Strategies, Dalian and Coradix, and the list goes on. We've heard that the number is 635. Is that number correct, for companies like that?

[Dominic Rochon]

I can only confirm that PSPC, I think, is the one that came up with this number. That's a specific number, so I can't confirm it for sure.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

What's the number you have, sir?

[Dominic Rochon]

I don't have a specific number on that, but I do know that the OCG, the Office of the Comptroller General, is doing a horizontal audit, which I think both ministers announced yesterday, to look into the issue, as is PSPC.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Then you don't know, Minister. That's the answer.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I announced the horizontal audit yesterday, so I will find out.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Were the three companies identified yesterday as having done fraudulent billing involved in ArriveCAN?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Again, that is being run out of PSPC. I do not believe so, but I cannot confirm, and I know I'm under oath here, so I'm sorry that I cannot confirm that.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Do you know the names of the companies?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I do not.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

How many more companies have been identified for doing fraudulent billing?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Again, that is not—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You can just leave your mic. They'll turn it on for you, Minister.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

That is not information that has come to me as President of the Treasury Board.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You don't know then. Yesterday's announcement said that $5 million of fraud was just the first wave.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

Go ahead on your point of order, Ms. Khalid.

[Iqra Khalid, Liberal, Mississauga—Erin Mills, ON]

I know you've been very judicious in talking about relevance, but I do really question the relevance of this line of questioning here, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, John Brassard]

I'm going to allow Mr. Barrett to continue with the floor. I heard what Ms. Kusie had to say, and I'm sure Mr. Barrett will bring it back to where he needs to go.

Mr. Barrett, you have the floor. Go ahead, please.

I did stop the clock.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

We heard in yesterday's announcement that the $5 million of corruption was just the first wave. If it is the first, that implies there's more to come. How many more companies have been identified?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

I think it's important to note that we are taking this extremely seriously by referring cases to the RCMP whenever fraud is uncovered, and that is exactly what we will continue to do.

I, as Treasury Board president, do not have jurisdiction over the referral of those cases. I introduced the horizontal audit that we will be undertaking, and there will be an update to the manager's guide—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Minister, you said you'd take it seriously.